Richard Brown WOOLFALL from Liverpool

[BarrattFamily]

Hi everyone,

I am trying to help a friend who has tried for a long time to find the death record of her great grandfather. We have both searched the GRO indexes on Ancestry.com - England & Wales, Death Index: 1837-1983 and can't find any record at all. His name was Richard Brown WOOLFALL. He was born in 1878 Garston, Liverpool. The latest entry we have for him is on the 1949
Kelly's Directory, and he was at 25 Hazelton Road, Old Swan. Does anyone have any suggestions?

Bye for now
Leonie

[Tina]

Hi Leonie
I'll send a pm to Doedoe who has 1955 to see if he's listed.
It will give you a closer time to search for his death.
When you searched Ancestry did you go quarter by quarter for every year?

Chat later
Tina

[BarrattFamily]

Yes, I did... It took hours. For some reason it was going slow today.

Thanks for your help Tina, much appreciated.

Bye
Leonie

[MaryA]

Are the deaths transcribed on Findmypast? they aren't on Ancestry.

I'm wondering if there could be an entry mistakenly transcribed as Brown-Woolfall, but Browns will be difficult to search.

Also if there is a searchable database, try just Brown in the firstname box.

Have you tried the telephone directories on Ancestry?

[Tina]

Quick question Leonie
You've got Richard bn Garston in census?

Tks
Tina

[Tina]

Woolfall family in Garston in 1881 but no Richard.
Sorry. Youngest was Louise aged 5 yrs.(servant in Ashton upon Mersey in 1901)

Something doesn't add up here??

Tina

[BarrattFamily]

I'll get back to you on that Tina. I've just had a quick look and I couldn't find them in the census. This friend of mine is doing the researching and we were talking about brick walls we have hit in our family history research. I told her about some of mine in Liverpool and she mentioned the Woolfall family and how she couldn't find Richard's death. I told her that this forum was great and she asked if I'd post a message for her. I searched myself first on ancestry and then posted the message when I had no luck.

[Tina]

No worries Leonie..it's GR8 you are helping a mate, that's what it's all about...
Good luck

Tina

[Tina]

Doedoe has replied, she's a darls.
He's listed in 1955 Directory..

Tina

[dickiesam]

Hi folks,
Just checked Findmypast from 1955 (his last 'sighting' as it were) up to 1978 when he would have been a 100. Looked for Brown-Woolfall (no hits) and Woolfall. Found one possible for the latter but the given age at death is way off.
Dec qtr 1966: Woolfall, Richard - 67 - Liverpool South - 10D - 563.

I suppose it is possible someone got his age wrong by nearly 20 years. There was a case recently where the staff in a nursing home were convinced one of the ladies there was 54 (and she looked it) when in fact she was a very well preserved 84!
Cheers,
Dickiesam

[MaryA]

There was a case recently where the staff in a nursing home were convinced one of the ladies there was 54 (and she looked it) when in fact she was a very well preserved 84!

Somebody's been watching Heirhunters

I can only suggest that he may have emigrated.

[northmeols]

England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915
Name: Richard Brown Woolfall
Year of Registration: 1878
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
District: West Derby
County: Lancashire
Volume: 8b
Page: 638

England & Wales Christening Records, 1530-1906
Name: Richard Woolfall
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 29 Aug 1879
Christening Date: 12 Nov 1879
Christening Place: Everton, Lancashire, England
Age at Christening: 0
Father's Name: John Woolfall
Mother's Name: Ann


England & Wales, FreeBMD Marriage Index: 1837-1915
Name: Richard Brown Woolfall
Year of Registration: 1898
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
District: West Derby
County: Lancashire
Volume: 8b
Page: 521




England & Wales, Marriage Index: 1916-2005
Name: Richard B Woolfall
Spouse Surname:Mary A G Fletcher
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1920
Registration district: West Derby
Registration county (inferred): Lancashire
Volume Number: 8b
Page Number: 1062



British Army WWI Medal Rolls Index Cards, 1914-1920
about Richard B Woolfall
Name: Richard B Woolfall
Regiment or Corps: Liverpool Regiment
Regimental Number: 25833

[dickiesam]

"Somebody's been watching Heirhunters" ......

Well that's at least an audience of 2!

Up to 1960 on Findmypast there's only 1 Richard Woolfall on the outgoing passenger lists:

Name: Mr R WOOLFALL
Date of departure: 19 December 1929
Port of departure: London
Passenger destination port: Mombasa, Kenya
Passenger destination: Mombasa, Kenya
Date of Birth: Not given
Age: ditto
Marital status: ditto
**********: Male
Occupation: Crown Agents

There are about 30 passengers all grouped together under the Crown Agents 'label'. Some are obviously married couples and there's a doctor or two. No ages given for any of them. Crown Agents are interesting people, especially in the Colonial days. See: Crown Agents -- The Queen's Managers here: http://american_almanac.tripod.com/agents.htm

Were there any 'overseas' connections besides Military service in Richard's past. What was his occupation when he appears to have married for a second time?

In 1898 he married Maud Louisa Harris - West Derby - 8b - 521.
And in 1901 he's a "Fancy tile fixer" with 2 sons to his credit.
WOOLFALL, George W - bn 1899 in Liverpool, and WOOLFALL, Richard J bn 1901 in Liverpool.

Dickiesam

[BarrattFamily]

Thanks everyone for the fantastic response. My friend has replied to my email and this is the info she has given me.



1881 census at Toxteth Park. His parents were George Brown Woolfall and Martha Davies.

He was born in Garston ( have his birth cert.) but only the 1891 and 1911 census state this.

His father is also wrong in 1881 ( down as 'Richard' and should be 'George')

1891 at West Derby with his family.

1901 at West Derby with his first wife, Maud Louisa Harris and two children.

1911 at 93 Leopold Road Liverpool, back living with his father as Maud had just died. Two of his children are missing from the census but I'm waiting till we get it (hopefully) at the AIGS.

I think they are more than likely missindexed on the census, which also may be the problem with
his death as well. . . . . .

Great that he was still alive in 1955 . . . !! Narrows the field down -)




I will pass your latest messages on and she what she has to say about the suggestion that he emigrated.

Thanks once again
Leonie

[BarrattFamily]

My friend's latest reply...


Richard's second wife, Mary Alice Georgina Fletcher, whom he married in 1920 and he, went on to have three more children, making the second lot of children, 20 years younger than the first lot. . .!

On the 1911 census, he states 6 children were born to he and his first wife ( Maud) but only three were living. Only one is with him on the census, the other two I cannot find, but haven't been able to have a really good look due to the cost of the images. His first son, George William Woolfall ( b 1899) died in France during WW1.

He was a Tile fixer on his second Marriage cert. and a Tile Fitter on his first.

I have all the relevant certs./ census info but not his death. I feel it would be unlikely for him to have emigrated at such a great age, and only one child, the youngest, George Woolfall ( b 1927), came to Australia, but that wasn't until 1970. The others remained in England, as far as I know . . . .

I think the only way to find Richard Brown WOOLFALL would be either a death notice in a paper, or from Burial details, but not having any year to go by, makes this a bit difficult, unless Lancashire has many of the cemeteries indexed .. . . .and that would be only if he had a headstone . . . .( He really has been difficult to track . .<g> .

[Tina]

Just a quick note which may help in searching for Richard's death. 1881 lists the family as WOOFFALL

Tina

[northmeols]

here's something to think about...... if he was a fancy tile fitter and he went out as 'crowns agent'....assuming it is him..... he could have gone to supervise a project like the tiling of the british embassy, in Kenya. it would not have been a permanent move and it would explain the group he was travelling with.

[dickiesam]

Hello Leonie,
Just to confirm those two Kelly's Directory entries..

He was born in 1878 Garston, Liverpool. The latest entry we have for him is on the 1949 Kelly's Directory, and he was at 25 Hazelton Road, Old Swan.

.

What does that entry, and the 1955 one as well, actually say? Because Richard would have been 71 in 1949 and about 76 in 1955. And who else is at the address?

[BarrattFamily]

Hi everyone,

I have been sending all of the replies to my friend for comments and here is her latest reply.

In the census for different years, there were all sorts of spellings of Woolfall - and Wooffall
was one of them .! The GRO, early on, even had one child as WOODFALL -)

1949 Directory of Liverpool and Suburbs, Alphabetical Directory,
Woolfall, Rd Brown, 25 Hazelton rd. Old Swan 14

No occupation listed and no-one else ( Woolfall) at that address.

I don't have the listing for 1955. Was it at the same address, do you know. . .?

Thanks to all for their help and comments. Really is a good list . . .!!

[BarrattFamily]

Hi again,

With regard to the 1955 directory listing. Tina found that for us earlier in the posting.

Doedoe has replied, she's a darls.
He's listed in 1955 Directory..