Liverpool & South West Lancashire FHS - Forum

Hi everyone,

I have reached a stage in my husbands family research that I can't seem to get past. I have been told his great grandparents are both buried at Anfield Cemetery. I contacted the Liverpool Record Office but they said they are unable to look it up and said I would have to pay for research costs. That doesn't bother me (who knows how many thousands of dollars I have paid already) but the problem is that I can't pay by credit card. Last time I paid for a bank cheque in Australia is was something like £15 to purchase a £10 cheque!! I don’t like giving any more to the bank, they make enough from me!!!
I have purchased a number of death certificates already and they were the wrong people. Does anyone have any suggestions on how I can find these burial records as that would enable me to purchase their death certificates and move on...

Kind Regards
Leonie

Hi Neighbour, I hope you get some useful advise - I have had similar experiences at the local "which bank?" costs a fortune when you have to add $30AUD. You may find what you're looking for at this website if they had headstones http://www.liverpool-ancestors.co.uk/ the webmaster has been very helpful to me but I did know the plot details from an old document. Otherwise the members of this forum are amazing with their knowledge and help
regards

Thanks for your reply Sandy.
I have tried looking on http://www.liverpool-ancestors.co.uk/ without any luck. I am hoping someone from the forum can give me some more ideas. I was just in England in May!! At that stage I didn't know where they were buried. Apparently the great grandmother was buried in her Franciscan robes. After her husband died she became a lay person at the church of St Mary of the Angels at Everton.Well, so I think anyway. I'd love to find out more about them.
It's a beautiful day in Newcastle and Lake Macquarie today isn't it...

If you know the dates and religion i will have a look for you. Irene

Just a thought for the future, when I've wanted to order something from, say America, I've transferred money through Paypal to a friend who has sent her personal cheque for the item I've wanted. Paypal appears to be an easy and safe method of transferring money as you securely set up your bank account details without the need to advise anybody, linked to your email address.

As to your deaths/graves, it's possible depending on the time span involved, that some kind soul might be able to look up Anfield Cemetery Register for you. Firstly we'd need to narrow down the date of death as near as possible, can you identify which censuses you have them in and possiblyin the case of the head of the household, if you have any directories mentioning him.

Hi Leonie
Off topic here
St Mary's was built by Amy Elizabeth Imrie who was the heiress (adopted daughter)of the part owner of White Star Shipping Line, for the Franciscans although I think she was with the Order of the Poor Clares and became a Mother Superior.
The church was known as the Vatican outside Rome to the people of Everton.

Kind regards
Tina

Thanks to Irene who's offered to do a look up for you, now you need to be as precise as you can be with names dates etc. The religion I suspect, because of the church, would be RC.

Well since we're talking about the church, St Mary and all the Angels and all the Saints, I think is it's full name in Fox Street is a lovely church, some pictures of it here.

I used to work around the corner in St Anne Street and often used to see funerals at the church. It was a very old community around Scotland Road and Great Homer Street and many of them had the old fashioned carriage and horse hearses, with the top hatted driver - this was still going on only a matter of ten years ago, possibly still does.

Thanks Irene & Mary for your help. I will tell you everything I know that could help find their deaths.

My husband’s great grandparents were Edward & Annie Barratt. Edward was born in Liverpool in 1858 (Census) or 1861 (Marriage) - Annie was born Anne O'Connor in Kildare, Ireland between 1865 (Marriage) & 1867/68 (Census).

They married on 13th June 1886 at St Oswalds Church, Old Swan, West Derby, Lancaster, England. He was 25 and she was 21. At that time they both lived in Glasshouse Lane, Old Swan. His father was Edward Barratt (Cabinet Maker) and her father was John O'Connor (Labourer).

1891 – 4/20 Tatlock Street, Liverpool
Edward - 33
Ann - 24
Elizabeth – 16 months

1901 – 5 Brook Street, Manchester
Edward - 43
Ann - 33
Elizabeth – 11 (married James McEvoy)
Christina – 5 (married James Willoughby)
Thomas – 2 (died before 1911)

1911 – No 5 Rupert Terrace, Garden Lane, Everton Brow
6 children were born – 3 living, 3 dead.
Edward - 53
Ann - 44
Elizabeth – 21
Christina – 16
Edward - 9

Edward Barratt who was 9 in the 1911 census was my husband’s grandfather. When he was born in October 1901 the family were living at 75 Ann Street, Stockport. His father Edward b1858 was a Cabinet Maker (Journeyman). I am not sure when Edward b1901 came to Australia. He died here in 1963 and a few years ago I was able to purchase all of his veteran’s affairs records. In them he had to fill out a family history form and he said that his father died aged 68 (Cancer of the mouth) and his mother died aged 75 (Senility). This would put their deaths about 1926 to 1929 for Edward & 1940 to 1943 for Annie. This is assuming that he was correct in their ages at death…

Both of their daughters were married at St Mary of the Angels Church, West Derby. This church would tie in with claims that Annie was buried in the Franciscan robes and this church (I believe) is also close to where Rupert Terrace once was??

The marriage taking place in St Oswalds Church would also confirm the religion as being Catholic, which since Anfield is a huge cemetery, will assist in the search.

If you check out Everton Brow on googlemaps you will see at the top of Everton Brow (east) where it meets Netherfield Road South/Shaw Street, across the road on the grass is a small round stone building known as Prince Rupert's Tower, taken as Everton Football Club as part of their crest. Google and you can find out more history about this old lockup.

I've just searched the full GRO index from 1939 - 1943 looking for an Ann Anne Annie BARRATT dying in the Liverpool area (West Derby registration district) aged 75years. I couldn't see a single woman anywhere near the area of any aged 75 years.

I also searched from 1925-1929 looking for an Edward but again with no success. No Edward anywhere I could see of the correct age.

Now I could have missed them but I'm definitely puzzled. Do they perhaps have other names?

Ed Officer

Hi Ed I have found two edwards one in 1922 and one in 1926 and an annie in 1939 which i,m going to check out. the ages are a little bit out but near enough to be possbles Irene

Perhaps I need new specs Irene! Glad you found something as I said I thought it was odd.

Ed Officer

SHOULD HAVE GONE TO SPEC SAVERS Irene

Thank you to EVERYONE for helping me with this mystery.

I was looking at a death of an Annie Barratt (73) Sept Qtr 1938 registered at Bucklow. I've had a look at Google maps but it's not quite the same as knowing the area!

Two of Edward & Annie's granddaughters live at Winsford which isn't too far away from the Bucklow area (by Australian standards anyway!)
The younger of the sisters is in her 70's and is caring for her older sister. She also cared for her mother - who was Annie's daughter. The point to this ramble is perhaps in her last years Annie lived with one of her daughters and it may have been in the Bucklow registration district?

I had a trip to England in May and a couple of weeks before I left I got a reply to a letter I had written. I sent out a mass mailing to people in that area with the McEvoy & Willoughby surnames. I have been randomly doing that for years and finally I hit the jackpot because a son of Christina contacted me. My holiday arrangements were already made but we detoured up to Winsford for a couple of hours and met the family who were lovely. I tried to ask as many questions as I could but I was a bit jetlagged and also overwhelmed a bit. The oldest sister is a bit forgetful and the younger one was born in 1936 so was only little when her grandmother died.

I am in the process of writing to them to see if our visit has stirred up any memories.

Thanks again to all for taking the time to help me and hopefully we can solve it.
Leonie

Had a peek to see how things went - I knew the response would yield results. Mary's description of St Mary's brought back memories for me as my Lawler grandparents lived in 76 Roscommon St (now parkland) near Great Homer St. My mum started off a Catholic and possibly took her first communion at that church if it was the local one however my Nan (not Catholic) had a row with the priest when mum fainted before communion as they were not allowed to eat in those days. Mum and her other siblings at the time were taken out of school and sent to the State school. I had forgotten the story until today.

Another glorious winter's day here in Newcastle n Lake Macquarie19 degrees celsius.
Regards

It's fantastic weather. Can you believe it is the middle of winter? It has been a bit cold at night. Probably not what English people would call cold though. We had a friend out from Germany last winter and he was wearing shorts! He told me to stop complaining about the cold because he thought it was warm!

I am hoping someone may be able to tell me if I am steering in the right direction with Bucklow. I am tempted to order it but I am starting to accrue unwanted certificates.
If any of the kind people helping me can't find anything maybe the letter to the family in Winsford might yield something.

Until a few years ago my mother-in-law (Chris) didn't even know anything about her father let alone his ancestors so she is very happy with what I have found out already. He left the family when she was a little girl and she really only knew his name until I started researching.

Visiting her Winsford family was weird. The cousin who is in her 70's looks nothing like my Chris but their mannerisms and interests were identical. They both collect frogs, both have fairy gardens and both are a bit zany.

The family gave me some photos and when my Chris saw the Annie Barratt photo she remembered the same photo being with her mothers photos when she was a little girl. She used to look at the photo and wonder who it was. As soon as she saw it she got goose bumps. She had assumed it was someone on her mother’s side. She is 72 and would not have seen that photo for well over 50 years.

Bye for now
Leonie

Dont order any more certs till i have checked out the ones i found on free bmd. i,m going to the lro today so not long to wait Irene

Bucklow wasn't the registration district for Winsford it's too far waawy.

Lets hope Irene hits the jackpot today.

Ed Officer

It's difficult since it would probably have been very expensive to bring a body across to have it buried in Anfield, more likely to have been buried locally.

Hoping that Irene's search produces some results for you.

Thanks. I wasn't sure, it's hard to tell. Google Maps said about 25 minutes drive away. In Newcastle our crematorium would be that far away from most people and the main cemetery about the same. You need to take a packed lunch... The few other cemeteries we have are almost full. Not sure what they have planned for the future.
I'm waiting with bated breath for Irene.