Liverpool & South West Lancashire FHS - Forum

If someone is heading to the LRO soon i would be gratefull for some help. I'm still on the trail of my Mary Ann Jones connections - needle in a haystack. Thanks to Irene I have ruled out the 1863 marriage of Catherine Jones to Richard Roberts as my family. I have found 2 other Richard Roberts Catherine Jones marriages through Lancashire BMD however I can only find the GRO details for one of them. That one is:-

Richard Simon Roberts m Catherine Jones at Our lady & St Nicholas & St Anne in 1881 first quarter 8b 119.

The other marriage is in 1868 at Liverpool St David (Lancs BMD ref - 2099LP/8/433).

I am hoping to find the Catherine Jones who is a widow (assuming they were married) of William Jones (mariner) father of my gt grandmother Mary Ann Jones (born abt 1860 and married to John Winrow in 1885) I know that Catherine is her mother as I have Catherine's death certificate listing her as Richard Robert's widow and Mary Ann as the reporting family member. I also have the original burial plot certificate showing Catherine, John Winrow & Mary Ann & 3 others. I know that William Jones is recorded as Mary Ann's father on the marriage certificate - thanks to Irene.

Census searches have been pretty fruitless for Mary Ann & her family prior to 1891. She is shown as being born in Liverpool in 1891 & 1901 - any advice greatly appreciated.

regards

Checked st davids three catherine jones marriages none were widows none married a winrow. but i wasnt sure who the groom would have been
and the St nics film was being looked at by some one else, short of hitting them over the head and robbing it there wasnt much i could do Irene

Thanks Irene - I'm looking for a Richard Roberts as the groom. Catherine's son in law was John Winrow. Did you make a note of the grooms at St Davids one of them should have been a Richard Roberts. If the Catherine Jones's were not widows they might not be the one although I can't be sure that she was married to William Jones. I believe in those days the child took the mother's name if the parents were not married.

This is the first set of relatives that I started searching and they are proving to be the most elusive - don't know what I would have done without the forum to help narrow the field.

For the St Nicholas - can I suggest some martial arts training to intimidate other users

Thanks again

I,m pretty sure there was a richard roberts. i will have another look Irene

If you have time that would be nice although if that Catherine was a spinster perhaps the 1881 marriage at St Nicholas might yield a result. What do you think?
I have sent for another Mary Ann Jones birth certificate to find out more - should get the right one eventually!
Thanks Irene
Regards

I will look at both Irene

Hi some bad news the reel i need for st nics appears to have gone walk about at the moment.
The st davids richard roberts was 18 aug 1868
he was of full age WIDOW labourer father william roberts labourer
catherine full age spinster father edward jones witness
william parry and anne cooper Irene

Thanks Irene must have missed to reply notification. Hopefully the St Nics reel will come home as it appears I am still looking if the St Davids one was a spinster.

I have asked the GRO to check a number of references for Mary Ann Jones (daughter of Catherine) to see if I can get more information about Catherine and the father so that i can find out when catherine was widowed. Should make finding the marriage to Richard Roberts a bit easier.

Thanks again
cheers

Not having much luck with Mary Ann's birth certificate but Irene has found the probable marriage of her mother Catherine Jones to Richard Roberts in 1881. I have original burial Plot certificate for Catherine Roberts & 5 others including Mary Ann. 1920 Death Certficate for Catherine in which it states that she is the widow of Richard Roberts - reported by Mary Ann Winrow.

"6th feb I think we have it, the film is still missing so i was allowed to view the ledger
richard simon roberts 48 widower blacksmith kent st
father francis simon roberts miller
catherine 41 widow kent st
joseph leuton tailor not sure of the first letter of the surname
witness george and ellen watts
Ihope this is the one you want Irene"

I'm inclined to think that the father of Catherine is Joseph Linton a Tailor as i have a scan of the marriage between Catherine Harrison Linton to Matthew Jones Mariner on 13th June 1858 (courtesy of Simone). Her father is Joseph Linton Tailor.

Catherine was listed with an infant Mary in the 1861 census listed as seaman's wife RG09; Piece 2675; Folio 55; page 40.

I'm thinking that Mary may have goven the wrong name for her father on the marriage certificate or she was misheard. Too many other coincidences.

Hope this is not too much information!

Thanks very mush Irene and also others who have provided assistance and encouragement

I have a feeling we've looked at the family in 1851 census before on one of your other posts -
5 Ct 7 House Blundle Street, St Thomas, Liverpool
Peter Wilkinson Head M 41 Porter Lancashire Preston
Ann Wife M 31 Cumberland Whitehaven
Elizabeth Linton Stepdaur U 13 Tobacconist Lancashire Liverpool
Catherine Stepdaur U 11 At school " "
Mary Ann Wilkinson daur 4 At home " "
James son 2 months " "
James Campbell Lodger 45 Porter Cumberland Whitehaven
John Cane Visitor 22 Sailor Cumberland Whitehaven
HO107; Piece: 2181; Folio: 615; Page: 42

I previously wondered if Ann's maiden name was Campbell and that James was related, but now wonder if maybe old friends from Whitehaven who needed lodgings contacted her and that was how come they were there.

Now you have a name for a prospective father for Catherine I checked the IGI and coincidentally the only one showing for the date you would be looking at, was in just the right place.

Joseph Linton married Ann Caile 21 December 1836 Holy Trinity, Whitehaven, Cumberland

Although I don't see a marriage I do see a birth/christening for
Mary Ann Wilkinson
Birth: 11 July 1847
Christening: 16 September 1847 St Mary'S, Liverpool
Parents : Peter and Ann - no surnames given.

It's all supposition of course and the only way I see to prove it is by Mary Ann Wilkinson's birth certificate which should show Ann's maiden and former names, but it's a lot of dosh to spend out if hunch is incorrect.

Another hunch - no even less than that really - but I do wonder what the handwriting was like in the marriage register - Ann Caile? when a visitor is John Cane - Cain/e?

Anybody any other thoughts or can you find a marriage of Peter Wilkinson to Ann Linton?

Thanks Mary You are right this is the family that we looked at before in 1861 and 51 but could not find a definite link. I had found a John Linton but the trail went cold.

I'm thinking that to have Catherine Harrison Linton (father Joseph a tailor) born in the right year (1840) marrying a mariner - Jones (matthew) daughter Mary also born in the right year, subsequently marrying Richard Roberts too many coincindences - she has got to be mine - all the boxes are ticked except for the mix up with the William or Matthew Jones's.

Will be busy for the next couple of days but will be burrowing away again after that.
cheers, Thanks again & goodnight

I have Catherine Harrison Linton's birth certificate which confirms that her Father is Joseph Linton - Mariner and her Mother is Ann Cail. They were living in Duke Street Whitehaven at the time.
IGI has a marriage between Joseph Linton and Ann Cail in Whitehaven on 21 Dec 1836 and there are 2 christenings listing Ann & Joseph as parents
Elizabeth ch 10 Sep 1837
William ch 22 Jan 1843.
No christening for Catherine
No sign of the family in the 1841 census on either of the well known sites - perhaps they were at sea!

William is not listed in the 1851 census with Ann, Elizabeth & Catherine living with Peter Wilkinson on 1851 so perhaps he died.

None of this has led to the correct birth certificate for Mary Ann Jones - Catherine's daughter - I am not giving up however. Thanks for the look ups and scans etc - couldn't manage without the forum

cheers from a very dusty East Coast of NSW after a huge dust storm yesterday - never seen anything like it

Sounds like another back burner job and something will turn up one day. Still hoping that Cail is a badly written Cain or Caire since there are a number of them living in Whitehaven.