Liverpool & South West Lancashire FHS - Forum

Does anyone know where this was, please? My grt grandparents married here in 1878 but I can't find out anything about it. I've searched the Online parish records and Genuki. I also obtained a map of Liverpool churches in 1900 which shows a St Paul's church but it's in Kirkdale, not Walton. (I read about a non-conformist St Paul's in Walton but that was built later.
He was living near Marsh St which does seem to be in Kirkdale and she was living near Westminster Road, which doesn't appear to be Kirkdale but neither seem to be living in Walton on the Hill. (I am sure this is the correct marriage certificate and in any case the church's name is written clearly).
Does anyone have any local knowledge - maybe it's changed its name?
I'd be very grateful for any ideas.
Laura

Hi Laura
There was a St Pauls Church, North Shore Kirkdale. I think it was C of E.

I'm sure Mary will know more than I do.

Tina

She doesn't, well not really, except that I didn't know Marsh Street so looked it up and it's round the back of Kirkdale Railway Station but Westminster Road is definitely in Kirkdale.

Unless somebody else knows any better, the church I would have expected to be described as St Paul's Walton on the Hill would be in Fazakerley, Formosa Drive http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/LAN/Fa ... Paul.shtml but it seems to be further away than I would have expected people living in Kirkdale to attend.

However it might be that they worked in Fazakerley, if one or the other of them was working on a farm that could well be the answer.

Just a thought if the marriage appears on www.lancashirebmd.org.uk that might give us a clue. Please could you post the names of the couple so we could have a look.

My only other thought is that the name of the vicar who carried out the marriage and a date might lead us to a directory entry which will be more specific about the church.

Ed Officer

Putting the name Smith (most common) into LancsBMD only two St Pauls show up in the Liverpool area - St Pauls, Liverpool and North Shore, Kirkdale, these will both be C of E.

I didn't manage to discover the date the Fazakerley St Pauls opened, it could well have been later than 1878.

The alternative is if the entry was marked "Registrar attended" then it would probably have been a marriage in a Catholic church, then we think again.

The map of the Church of England churches around 1900 gives 3 st Paul churches

St Paul North Shore Kirkdale
St Paul Belverdere Road Princes Park
St Paul St Paul's Square

The use of established church implies a Church of England church but maybe more information will help

Ed Officer

The church will be St Pauls North Shore Kirkdale which came under the parish of Walton on the Hill

Morning All
1894 Directory lists St Paul's C of E North Shore Kirkdale v Braesnose Road. In Braesnose Rd between 68 & 70 is St Paul's Church & National School.

Here's a link for you
http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/Liverpool/Kirkdale/home.html

Tina

added 21/3/1908 Lady Mayoress laid a memorial stone for the new Parochial Hall.

I was christened at St Pauls Fazakerley in the early 1940.s the housing estate went up in the early 1930 ,s so church must have been built around that time
D
7631

This topic is of interest to me because my late mum and her sisters were all born at 1 Ivor Street, Kirkdale, Liverpool and christened at St Paul's Church Kirkdale between 1919 and 1930.

Ivor Street was a tiny street between St Johns Road and Brasenose Road. Looking at my Liverpool books I see that there are 3 schools/churchs close to/off St Johns Road shown. I know one of those was St Johns School & Church because my older sister started school there in 1950/1 and that was definitely CofE and was on the corner of St Johns Rd with St Johns Terrace.

I would imagine that the next one, which is just along from Ivor Street and on Brasenose Road would be St Pauls where my mum was christened.

Thank you very much for all your help everyone. I am fairly sure the church must be the St Paul's in Kirkdale from all this information. The marriage certificate definitely states it is the Established Church and the Fazakerley church I think was too far and probably built later on. He worked on the railway as a fireman (actually you've already helped me about a year ago with that bit of it!).

I am really interested in what you said (Ed Officer) about looking up the minister as I don't know how to do that and would be very grateful if you could tell me.
In case this helps, the couple were:

William Rushton and
Jane Wrigley

The date was 18th May 1878

Originally, the problem I had with the Kirkdale church is that my certificate says "in the parish of Walton on the Hill" and my 1900 map of C of E parishes has the Kirkdale church in the parish of Kirkdale. I'm just guessing, but I should think that there must have been some redrawing or renaming of parish boundaries because from everything you've all said, this has got to be the one!

It's very nice to solve this as I've been puzzling over it for ages, so thanks again.
Laura

Per the request of Education Officer earlier for the names so that they could be checked against LancashireBMD

William Rushton married Jane Wrigley 1878 Kirkdale, North Shore, St. Paul

As the mystery is now resolved I only thought if Lancashirebmd didn't solve it.Using the name of the viacr on the certificate he could have been looked up in a directory of the time to see where he was the vicar of.

But the problem is solved!!

Ed Officer

That's excellent! Thank you. I have had the marriage certificate for ages, probably found the information on Ancestry and it never occurred to me to look on Lancs BMD as well. The address they give confirms it's the right church. Any more churches problems and I'll look there first! Useful to know about looking up a vicar, too, thank you.
Laura

St Paul's, Kirkdale, seems to have been missed by David Lewis in his excellent 'Churches of Liverpool'.
Glad you cracked the problem.
D

I don't even think it's there now! I've now discovered it's merged with another church and become St Lawrence and St Paul's - no wonder it was difficult to find. I'm assuming that the building is no longer there as there doesn't seem to be much information about it. A pity but at least I can now mark on my map where they got married even if I can't see it.
Laura

Hi Laura,

St Paul's Kirkdale closed in 1973.

This info is from Liverpool Records Office website.

RefNo 283 SPK
Title St. Paul, Kirkdale
Date 1856-1956
AdminHistory St. Paul's North Shore was consecrated on 16th July 1868 having previously been a chapelry of St. Mary, Walton-0n-the-Hill. Lord Derby [14th Earl] gave 2,300 square yards of land for the site and £1000 to the Endowment Fund. The church was closed in Sep 1973 to make way for industrial development
Extent 23 Volumes
AccessConditions Registers of Baptisms, Marriages and Banns available only on microfilm. Access will be granted to any accredited reader

Jan

Thank you for that. At least I won't waste my time trying to find it when I do my visit!
Laura

Hi Laura,

yes, St Pauls, North Shore was on Brasenose Rd. I was christened there lived in Brasenose Rd, and went to the infant and junior school attached to the church. The church catchment area covered Marsh St; and in fact the church hall was built in Celia St. which became Marsh St. as it went further up towards Kirkdale station
My grandfather was married in St Pauls 1886 and the Vicar, on the marriage cert, is given as Colin Lester.

Joe.

Maureen,
Ivor St, was a cul-de-sac off Brasenose Rd, which finished at the wall of a railway cutting. By the way, Maureen, does your sister remember the Dougherty family who lived in Ivor St, in the 50s and 60s? Anita Dougherty was a friend of my sister and would be about the same age as your sister.

Joe

I have been trying to get a photo of St Paul's North Shore, I contacted LivRO, and this is the reply I got in e-mail.

Hello Jan

Thank you for your e-mail.

I have checked our catalogues and indexes, but cannot find a view of St Paul's Church, North Shore, Kirkdale. I am sorry not to have been able to help.

Janice Utting
Liverpool Record Office.

Jan