Liverpool & South West Lancashire FHS - Forum

Hi everyone Iam Bill McKenna ,all of the McKennas in my family came from liverpool. I am particulary looking for any relitives of. James and Johanna . both IRE. abt 1840s 1881 census has Johanna W with 5 kids at 15 bk portland st. James 17/ lawrence 15/ edward 13 /williaim 11 my gdad / and mary ellen 8. My gdad William, married Mary ellen Hegarty 1891 st albans athol st. he barmouth st she steel st. I have a Bcert. for a Patrick 1861 . On williams Bcert Johannahs maiden name is Kyle. on Patricks it Coyle. anyone out there?

Hi and welcome to the forum.

We can give you some census information and perhaps some marriages might be traced forward to give you some clues about other relatives.

To go backwards one census to have James around, here is the 1871 census, all children born Liverpool

Back Portland Street, No. 1 Court No. 9 House, St Martin, Liverpool
James McKenna Head M 40 Labourer Ireland
Johanna Wife M 40 Ireland
John son 15 Scholar
James son 9 "
Lawrence son 7 "
Edward son 5 "
William son 2
RG10; Piece: 3759; Folio: 143; Page: 34

Not easy to be sure of the correct ones in 1891 as the names aren't uncommon, but this may be Lawrence ..... and others I noticed afterwards

32 Oriel Road, Kirkdale
Catherine Kiley Head Wid 58 Ireland
Charles Jefferson Lodger Wid 65 Dock Labourer Scotland
Peter Quinn " S 40 " Ireland
Thomas Mullen " S 57 " Liverpool
Robert Hardacre Nephew M 22 " "
Mary E Hardacre Niece M 19 Charwoman "
Mary J Hardacre Gt Nephew 14 days "
Laurence McKenna Nephew S 28 Mariner "
William McKenna Nephew S 24 Mariner "
Margaret McKenna Neice 9 Scholar "
RG12; Piece: 2967; Folio 31; Page 55

Mary E McKenna married Robert Hardaker Q1 1891 8b 769 (West Derby, Register Office or Registrar attended, possibly a marriage in a Catholic Church)

many thanks for the great help. Mary, And to anyone else who took the time to look

I have received a response from Bill

All of this is a great help. I have tried for ages to get this on my own .It looks like the maiden name for my Johannah could be the KILEY some relation to the Catherine Kiley in the 1891 census. As my Gdad William is there .
thanks again BillMc

So it seems as though I have the right family, in case anybody was waiting for confirmation before looking further.

Hi Mary
There's quite a gap between John & other sibs in 1871 census.
The other kiddies born almost 2 years apart.
Anyway, suffink or nuffink.
They are listed as Mc space Kenna
Shades of 1911

Tina

Don't know if this is the same Catherine and if so it's another alternative to the surname.

1901 - 36 Macbeth Street, Kirkdale
Catherine Kelly Head Wid 60 Lodging House Keeper Ireland
Robert Hardacre Boarder M 36 Marine Fireman Liverpool
Mary Ellen Wife M 30 Liverpool
William son 8 "
Mary J daur 10 "
Johanna daur 4 "
Robert son 2 "
/
Maggie McKenna Aunt S 19 Servant Domestic At Home Liverpool
Christopher Powell Boarder S 56 General Labourer Worker Kildare Ireland
James McKee Boarder S 40 General Labourer Worker Armagh Ireland
Michael Egan Boarder S 50 General Labourer Worker Co Kilkenny Ireland
RG13; Piece: 3471; Folio: 97; Page: 35

Tina wrote:There's quite a gap between John & other sibs in 1871 census.
The other kiddies born almost 2 years apart.

Hi Tina, yes I noticed that, also that Bill says he has a birth cert for "Patrick" born 1861. He's one to fit in that gap, there may be another.

Bill how did you know about Patrick?

Mary I have 2 Bcerts for Patrick McKenna 1 1861 / 1 1871`Both James and Johanna The 1861 add. is 15 Bk Portland St.

Sounds like you made a good guess at the name then, the 1861 must certainly have been theirs, if the 1871 Patrick was theirs also it must have been after the census and after they had moved. Suspect he might have also died since he's not around in 1881.

Trying to find them in 1861 ...

Worn my shoeleather out up and down Back Portland Street in 1861 but I don't see them, perhaps someone else will have better luck.

You'll think me daft but I think these two are the same family and somebody has made a mistake with the birthplaces when giving the enumerator the details. From the date of birth it's possible that it's John.

1881 - 4 Smiths Court, Ancoats, Manchester
(All noted as being born Manchester!!)
John McKenna Head M 26 Lab. Flour Mill
Sarah Ann Wife M 25
Sarah daur 7 Scholar
William son 5 "
Margaret daur 16 months
RG11; Piece: 3979; Folio: 57; Page: 7

1891 - Slade Street, 11 Ct 7 House, St Martin, Liverpool
(All born Liverpool!!)
John McKenna Head M 36 Miller
Sarah A Wife M 35 Charwoman
Sarah daur S 17 "
William Son 15 Errand Boy
Margaret daur 11 Scholar
Joseph son 7 "
Thomas son 5 Blind
Catherine daur 1
RG12; Piece: 2903; Folio 112; Page 35

To bring some of this family forward to 1901

42 Haddock, Kirkdale
William Maxwell Head Widr 58 Cotton ?? Ireland
Sarah McKenna Serv Wid 49 Domestic Servant Lancashire Manchester
Joseph McKenna Boarder S 19 Boiler Makers ?? Lancashire Manchester
Catherine McKenna Boarder S 12 Lancashire Liverpool
RG13; Piece: 3471; Folio: 178; Page: 12

This seems to make more sense of the mix up in birthplaces.

OK I have the family in 1861 - transcribed McCanna - understandable really since that's how it's written.

13 Back Portland Street, St Martins, Liverpool
James McCanna Head M 34 Labourer Ireland
Johanna Wife M 35 Ireland
John son 5 Liverpool
Catherine daur 3 "
Lawrence son 20 months
Patrick son 3 months
RG9; Piece: 2654; Folio: 296; Page: 5

There then Tina, looks like three children between John and James, with possibly both Lawrence and Patrick being named again for later children.

I dont think the 1901 is my family. My Grdad William 1869 married Mary Ellen Hegarty in 1891 st albans athol st Their chidern Margaret/Johannah /William my dad/ Michael/ Mart Ellen

MaryA wrote:42 Haddock, Kirkdale
William Maxwell Head Widr 58 Cotton ?? Ireland
Sarah McKenna Serv Wid 49 Domestic Servant Lancashire Manchester
Joseph McKenna Boarder S 19 Boiler Makers ?? Lancashire Manchester
Catherine McKenna Boarder S 12 Lancashire Liverpool
RG13; Piece: 3471; Folio: 178; Page: 12

Is this the family you are referring to? if so then this Sarah was married to John. I haven't looked at your William, do you have the dates of birth for any of the children?

Sorry Mary You are right , I keep forgetting John as he is a new one to me. the dates for the childern after John/ Catherine+patrick James 17/ Lawerence15/ Edward 13/ William 11/ Mary Ellen 8 in the 1881 census

Your grandfather William's children is what we are after to try to find the 1901 census for them. I believe Johannah's birth would have been Q2 1899?

If your father was born around 1901 do you have his birth certificate and what address was given on it?

They are hiding well.

You need to work your way through all of the above and draw yourself a tree. You will need a birth certificate of one of John's children to discover Sarah's maiden name and then try to get the marriage in order to check if he is the right John to fit with your family.

HE married in 1891 and childern where Margaret/ Joannah/ William my dad /Michael/ and Mary Ellen.
MY dad was born 1906/7 no B/cert. last known add. on his marriage Cert.
1941
3 court Slade St. My aunt Margaret (MEG) never married, Joannah married a Bill Brown no childern. Michael lost believed killed in Algiers ww2. Mary Ellen married a Jim DUNN/DUNNE ?
once again thanks for your efforts on my behalf
BMCK

maccionaoith wrote: last known add. on his marriage Cert.
1941
3 court Slade St.

That sounds very coincidental, although I know it's years later, the same street as John and family were in 1891.

No luck finding him in the 1901 census, I can only suggest you start from the 1911 http://www.1911census.co.uk/ and work back from there. You will be able to see the family if you enter the reference RD453 and under the "Other Members of the Household" you put in Johanna Mc Kenna (space between the Mc and K).
William 38, Mary Ellen 36, Margaret 14, Johanna 11, Michael 7 and William 3

Much as I've enjoyed this bit of research, I have to advise you that if you were to go to your local library you would have access to Ancestry.com on their computers.

You would then be able to search forward for births of known marriages, eg Mary Ellen to Jim Dunn.

If you enter the surname Dunn into the birth searches and put mckenna into the mother's maiden name, there are quite a few possibles in Liverpool ranging between 1937 to 1950. I would suggest that you search for the marriage for the parents from 1937 working backwards.

I'm reluctant to put any more information online since many of these people could still be living.

You should also be able to search for Michael on the Commonwealth War Graves Commission Site