Liverpool & South West Lancashire FHS - Forum

Rebecca Grant was married to Thomas Morris on 19 February 1806 at St.Anne's Church, Cazneau Street, Liverpool (known as St.Anne, Richmond - demolished 1970s). One of their children was John Grant Morris, my great-great-grandfather.
Rebecca was born 18 February 1785 and baptised 17 April at the Scotch Presbyterian Church, Maryport, Cumberland, daughter of John Grant and his wife Ann. The County Archive Service at Carlisle told me that their microfilm copy of the church's register includes that baptism and states that John and Ann were ‘of Maryport’. At that time the west Cumberland ports had much trade with Liverpool and many of Liverpool's ship-owners shipbuilders and merchants had migrated for greater opportunities as Liverpool's trade gradually increased at the expense of its rivals.
I have not found a marriage for this couple listed in the IGI or elsewhere, but a photocopy in Liverpool RO of the registers of Kaye Street Presbyterian Chapel, Liverpool (which later became Hope Street Unitarian Church) show the following baptisms of children of a John Grant and Ann his wife (no mother's maiden name given).
John born 19 April bapt. 18 May 1787
Sarah born 13 March bapt 28 March 1791
James born 18 October bapt.17 November 1793
[probably died young and replaced by a younger brother - see James of 1796/7]
George born 12 May bapt.17 June 1795
James born 27 Dec.1796 bapt. 29 January 1797.

Can anyone help to throw light on this John Grant and his family, please?
Daggers

Hi Daggers

When a parish register says OF a place it does not always mean they were born there it can mean they were living there

John Grant senior was baptised at Kaye St Presbyterian in 1745 father John ( IGI ) & NON PAROCHIAL BMD WEB SITE..

Baptism Sarah Grant St Nicolas Liverpool 1800 father John Grant mother Ann Knipe occ of father Cordwainer address Knight St..
So its looking like the first Sarah born 1791 must have died..

Liverpool directory 1796 John Grant Shoemaker address 26 Knight St/Berry St

All childrens baptisms are on the NON PAROCHIAL BMD WEB SITE BUT YOU HAVE TO PAY TO VIEW THE RECORDS...

Hope this helps a bit

Col
Thanks for that info. I have not tried that site before and will see how much I have to extract from the piggy bank.
D

Hi

I am now wondering if that baptism for John Grant 1745 is too early..it would make him 55 in 1800 when second Sarah was born, not impossible as wife Ann may have been younger.seems too much of a coinsidence doesnt it that they used that church for the children's baps...

There is a marriage for a John Grant to a Abigail Floyd at St Nicolas 1744 that looks promising.. seen as though John was born a year later.

I think if John & Ann had married at a Presbyterian Church it would be on the non parochial BMD'S.


Maybe someone has access to St Nicolas marriages for 1744..

xx

Thanks again, Colette for these thoughts. I am still catching up on another thread, exchanging details with a new-found cousin, so have had to put the Grant lot aside for the time being. I will return, as Gen. Macarthur once said.
D

I am ashamed to say that this thread had slipped through my memory and has only just come back into action.
Colette, you said this in your last post here:
"Baptism Sarah Grant St Nicolas Liverpool 1800 father John Grant mother Ann Knipe occ of father Cordwainer address Knight St."

I have now seen this baptism in the new IGI pages, but there is no mention there of John Grant's occupation. Can you possibly remember, or look again, to see where that detail came from?

I have not found the marriage of John G and Ann nee Knipe, either.

Daggers

Liverpool St Nicholas
Born 17 June 1799
Baptised 17 June 1800
Sarah dau of John Grant Knight Street, Cordwainer, and Ann nee Knipe, his wife

PS There is no entry for him in the 1790 Lewis's Directory

Here is the burial for Sarah Grant from Lancashire OPC:

Burial: 24 Jul 1793 St Paul, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Sarah Grant - daughter of John Grant & Ann
Died: 23 Jul 1793
Abode: Knight Street
Occupation: Cordwainer
Register: Burials 1769 - 1800, Page 37, Entry 17
Source: LDS Film 1656373

Alison x

...and a couple more:

Burial: 16 Jun 1796 St Paul, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
James Grant - son of John Grant & Ann
Died: 14 Jun 1796
Abode: Knight Street
Occupation: Cordwainer
Register: Burials 1769 - 1800, Page 54, Entry 19
Source: LDS Film 1656373

Burial: 1 Oct 1797 St Paul, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
George Grant - son of John Grant & Ann
Died: 29 Sep 1797
Abode: Knight Street
Occupation: Cordwainer
Register: Burials 1769 - 1800, Page 58, Entry 30
Source: LDS Film 1656373

...and more!

Burial: 10 Jul 1806 St Paul, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
John Grant - son of John Grant
Died: 9 Jul 1806
Age: 5days
Abode: Knight Street
Occupation: Cordwainer
Register: Burials 1801 - 1812, Page 101, Entry 69
Source: LDS Film 1656373

John and Ann's marriage is on the IGI but not much additional info other than the year:

Groom's Name: John Grant
Groom's Birth Date:
Groom's Birthplace:
Groom's Age:
Bride's Name: Ann Knipe
Bride's Birth Date:
Bride's Birthplace:
Bride's Age:
Marriage Date: 1780
Marriage Place: Kendal, Westmoreland, England
Groom's Father's Name:
Groom's Mother's Name:
Bride's Father's Name:
Bride's Mother's Name:
Groom's Race:
Groom's Marital Status:
Groom's Previous Wife's Name:
Bride's Race:
Bride's Marital Status:
Bride's Previous Husband's Name:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M39625-5
System Origin: England-VR
Source Film Number: 1471686
Reference Number: 2:3V5Z7Q5


Alison x

At least it gives the place which is more than we had before.

Thank you all for those details and late working! The picture is getting clearer, and the register of St Nick's [sent as a pm by Mary] is a wonderful example of what might have been, if the later standard forms of register had included mother's former name.
That marriage entry for Kendal is an odd one, with no church or chapel named. I suspect it might be non-conformist, as the baptisms in Liverpool were Presbyterian, and I can think of one little chapel I have visited for other reasons!
Daggers

As others have previously, I would contact the LDS with the film number and ask them which churches were listed on it. You might get a list of a few, but hopefully one might stand out.

daggers wrote:and I can think of one little chapel I have visited for other reasons!

thinking there might be a story behind this.

Nothing naughty - it is just that there is a small family link with an independent chapel in Kendal, now Unitarian, on my mother's side. It would be strange if both sides had been there. I have emailed the Kendal RO asking for a favour, but will try the LDS if that fails.
D

Between 1753 and 1837 for the marriage to be legal it would have had to have taken place in the establiched church, the Church of England.

I looked the film number of the marriage up in the LDS catalogue and it is for the

Parish registers for Kendal, 1558-1907 Church of England. Parish Church of Kendal (Westmoreland)

Hope that helps

That makes more sense, thanks for the detail. I shall amend my request to Kendal RO.
D

Kendal RO have confirmed that there is a marriage entry for Grant/Knipe at Holy Trinity, Kendal and I am now waiting for a copy of the entry. This could tie up these Grants, thank to pals here.
D

The record office at Kendal have sent a copy of the register page. Interesting to find that John Grant was described as "militiaman"' in other words a part time soldier. 1780 was only a year after the renegade John Paul Jones was raiding the Cumberland coast on behalf of the Americans. This may mean that the militia were mobilised.

The register is scanty on detail: groom and bride's names, with 'Bach' or 'spin', both ' of this parish'. No signatures or witness, or info on banns or licence. Is this likely to be a Bishop's Transcript?

D

At that date even if it was, it's doubtful the parish register would have any more information. I've noticed prior to 1837 I've often been grateful for just the little extra "of this parish".

I think if we tried to answer your question at best we would be guessing, perhaps the Kendal Record Office knows more.