Liverpool & South West Lancashire FHS - Forum

My wife's ancestor Sarah Hanmer was living in Back Clare Street in 1841 census. I am wondering where in L'pool Clare Street was, what type of property &c. and where I may find it on old maps [have 1840 & 1869.

More about Sarah:
Sarah Carter born 1811 Northallerton, N Yorks married Benjamin Hanmer 1832 L'pool St Thomas. In 1841 they were at Back Clare Street. 1851 they were at Aberdeen Street and lived there til Benjamin died 1878. Sarah moved back to Northallerton and died there 1881. I have info re Aberdeen Street houses but have only just found her in 1841 [8 years of sporadic searching] and in order to complete her story wouldlike to know about the kind of house she lived in then.
Colin Parlor [Leeds]

Hi Colin
Welcome from across the seas.
While the crew are "warming up", could you please give ref for 1841 census e.g HO107 etc.
The forum can go on the enumerators "walk".
They will know a lot more than myself.
I think Clare St was in the Islington area near Springfield.
I'll have a squizz at an old map & get back to you.

(1851 as Hammar)

Cheers
Tina

Hi Colin, Welcome to the forum, I hope we can help.

Spot on Tina, the description of the Enumerator's Walk should show just where it was.

Registrar's District of Islington
All that part of St Anne's Ward in the Town of Liverpool comprising Springfield Street - St Anne's Street - Clare Street - Upper Clare Street and the North side of Islington from St Anne's Street to Shaw's Brow.

The only method of map searching I have available to me while I'm at work is www.old-maps.co.uk and if you search for William Brown Street (this used to be Shaw's Brow) you will see it's a very dense area, zoom in until you can see the name Springfield Street, just above the first O of Liverpool and you will see Clarer Street runs slightly north-west to south-east crossing it, parallel with Christian Street.

Hi Tina,
Reference for Srah Hanmer/Hamner/Hammer.
In 1841 Back Clare Street is off St Annes Street. Ref: HO107 piece 559 Folio 26 page 45.
In 1851 Benjamin & Sarah Hammar HO 107 2188 fo 358 p8 - 2 Aberdeen Street.
In 1861 Benjamin & Sarah hanmer RG ? 2706 fo 46 - 55 Aberdeen Street
In 1871 Benjamin & Sarah Hanmer RG ? 4870 fo 58 - 55 Aberdeen Street
I have found Aberdeen Street on 1869 map.
thanks for info so far - will look later.
Colin

Tina wrote:Hi Colin
Welcome from across the seas.
While the crew are "warming up", could you please give ref for 1841 census e.g HO107 etc.
The forum can go on the enumerators "walk".
They will know a lot more than myself.
I think Clare St was in the Islington area near Springfield.
I'll have a squizz at an old map & get back to you.

(1851 as Hammar)

Cheers
Tina

Hi myra,
Thanks for that, should help me find it. from the description it appears to be a back-to back [we still have some in Leeds] with mainly artisans - watchmaker &c. though I notice some female heads of household described as F Y what does this mean?
Colin

MaryA wrote:Hi Colin, Welcome to the forum, I hope we can help.

Spot on Tina, the description of the Enumerator's Walk should show just where it was.

Registrar's District of Islington
All that part of St Anne's Ward in the Town of Liverpool comprising Springfield Street - St Anne's Street - Clare Street - Upper Clare Street and the North side of Islington from St Anne's Street to Shaw's Brow.

The only method of map searching I have available to me while I'm at work is www.old-maps.co.uk and if you search for William Brown Street (this used to be Shaw's Brow) you will see it's a very dense area, zoom in until you can see the name Springfield Street, just above the first O of Liverpool and you will see Clarer Street runs slightly north-west to south-east crossing it, parallel with Christian Street.

colinparlor wrote:I notice some female heads of household described as F Y what does this mean?

That would be F.S. for Female Servant, you will often come across M.S. also.

They could be domestic or farm servants and it's not always clear at least in the 1841 census, whether they are living in the household where they are working, or if they are lodging there and working elsewhere. It's often clearer in the later ones as the relationship to the Head of the household would probably be noted as Servant rather than a family relationship.

Hi everyone
So Hamer in 1841!
Benjamin a porter 40 yes born county
Sarah not born county.
St Anne's St prior to their posting and St Anne's St after that.
Then the census moves to Islington final page 29, still there.
Page 1 in this block, is Springfield St.
Spot on Mary..

Tina
now to find an old map or photos

Hi Gang,
This has been amazingly helpful. From Myra A's description of how to find Clare Street on old-maps.co.uk I managed to follow the street patterns and identify the whereabouts on my copies of 1840 & 1869 maps. The strange thing is that whilst I have old maps of various parts of the country, I don't have a 20Cy map of Liverpool so I can't identify it's whereabouts in relation to the modern city - how sad is that? I expect the back-to-backs have long since gone being on the northern side of Lime Street but it would be nice to put it into a modern context. Tina mentioned a hope for photo's. That would be nice or a description from somone who knew the houses. Also when they were demolished [if they have been].
Despite this being a time when people moved about a lot, Sarah & Benjamin only moved twice between 1841 [Clare Street] and 1878 when Benjamin died at 55 Aberdeen Street. The only other identifiable address is 1861, 2 Aberdeen Street and I have a photo of Aberdeen St.
Tying up these last details of Sarah in 1841 will mean I have her from cradle to grave with the exception of exactly when she moved - on her own - from Northallerton [N. Yorks] to Liverpool and why. These are 2 questions I don't expect to get answered as I can't think of any records that would help. I know she married in 1832 at St Thomas' in L'pool and have copies of ALL docs [BMD, Census, Samplers, Loving cups to celebrate silver wedding (unfortunately with another branch of the family but I have photos) and I have visited her grave in Northallerton to let her know she's been found. I haven't found Benjamin's grave and don't know where to start as I don't know the city.
Aberdeen Street was near Sefton ark in the Toxteth park area.
Thanks for everything, you've been great.
Colin

I've just found an OS map [copyright 2009] but not sure of exact age of map. Clare Street is next to the Adelphi Theatre so is it still there?
Colin

The Godfrey series of repro maps has one of Liverpool (London Road) 1848-64 in large scale showing Clare St in detail at the edge. (Liverpool Sheet 25, £2.20, available from them online). It ran between Islington and Springfield St, opposite Fraser St. The latter is still there ( or some of it) but Clare St has gone.
D

Hi Colin
Here's the link to Clare St in Ordnance Survey Map.
You can see the street where Springfield St crosses over and Adelphi Theatre.
Click south & you will get the Walker Art Gallery which you can find in Google Maps William Brown St.

All the best
Tina

http://www.british-history.ac.uk/mapshe ... =371&y=425

colinparlor wrote: The strange thing is that whilst I have old maps of various parts of the country, I don't have a 20Cy map of Liverpool so I can't identify it's whereabouts in relation to the modern city

http://maps.google.co.uk/ As previously search for William Brown Street. Sticking to the street names you will have seen on the 1851 map on the Old-Maps site - a little north you will see Hunter Street running West to East changing to New Islington and Islington (dual carriageway now).

On the other side of New Islington you will see St Anne Street heading north, to the east is Springfield which stops at St Anne Street. To the west is Gerard Street and Christian Street.

Yes they are all new houses now, part of the regeneration of the last twenty years or so.

You will find mention of Clare Street and pictures of it's surroundings on the Inacityliving site although these would be later, but before the turn of the Century.

http://inacityliving.piczo.com/?g=44843738&cr=7

Try the beginning of this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLLPjy3rFGY to see how the houses might have been before they built the tenements.

Hi Colin,

This is a good while out of date, but I found this on The National Archives website (can't get on the LRO Archives for some reason!)

It is under the files of Edmund Kirby (architect).


Clare Street No 1 Housing Confirmation Order: correspondence, papers and plans concerning compulsory purchase of properties in Clare Street area. 720KIR/2191 1937-51

These documents are held at Liverpool Record Office and Local History Service


Jan

Have tried the various websites suggested. there's an amazing amount of stuff there. MaryA and Tina have been a great help. I've sent for a copy of the 1906 Os suggested by daggers and will contact LRO as suggested by Jan44.Thank you all
Coln