Sarah Ellen Cahill Re-visited

[alan donougher]

Posting this for the benefit of any new members who aren't aware of this family. There are many previous postings with not much success.

Briefly! I will expand upon facts if anyone reacts:
Sarah Ellen Williams b. 1870 to William Williams & Ellen (Fox).
Located in the 1881 census living with her aunt Currie.
Marries James Thomas Cahill in 1887.
Has at least one child, Ellen Cahill, in 1888. The previous all occurred in Liverpool.
The family cannot be found in the 1891 Census.

Now Family lore !

Sarah Ellen, now Cahill , disappears about 1895 never to be seen again.

Now fact again :
James in the 1901 census is with a "Wife" Margaret but does not marry her until 1902.
Husband James waits 7 years and then marries Margaret Fitzgerald, born Ashton.

To the old timers on the site, my apologies for rehashing. But maybe, someone new just might have a clue. Lastly to formalise the relationship, Sarah Ellen Cahill was my g grandmother.

Thanks

Alan

[Tina]

Hi Alan
With membership requirements I doubt we have many new members to chase up your post.
I'm one of many here who cannot find an answer for you.

Tina oxo

[dickiesam]

Hello Alan,
What age was James Thomas when he married Sarah Ellen? And do you have a place/country of origin and occupation for him from the 1901 census?
Cheers,
Dickiesam

[alan donougher]

Dickiesam,

From the 1901 census: 15 Kendrick St Seaforth
James Cahill 34 Rigger of ships born Liverpool

From his marriage cert:
Date of marriage 14 June 1887 at St Anthony's Chapel, Scotland Rd
Age 21 Mariner living at 33 Epsom St Liverpool and father was Thomas Cahill

Appreciate your interest

Alan

[Tina]

Hi Dickiesam
We were not able to find them in 1891.
James could have been at sea but where is Sarah and young Ellen?
This has stumped us!

Tina

[dickiesam]

Hi Tina,
Methinks the family may well have been at sea with the father in early April 1891. Or, if his roots where in Ireland they may well have been there. Do we know where James father Thomas was born?

As for Sarah's 'disappearance' about 1894/5 and the family story relating to it about young Ellen going out to a nearby shop for milk and coming home to an empty house... I think that story was 'invented' to avoid embarrassment to the family. There's several such tales in my lot. Sarah just didn't disappear, there were circumstances leading up to her leaving that will never be known.

I think it may well be linked to the fact that James and his 2nd wife did not marry until 1902 despite being together as man and wife in the 1901 census. Divorce for working class people was almost unheard of and past experience with my family leads me to believe that Sarah had died some short time before 1902. And her death was probably registered under another surname, that of her then 'partner'.
Good luck folks...
Dickiesam

PS: What was James Cahill's 'Condition' on his 2nd marriage cert?

[dickiesam]

Hi folks,
I realise that I may be going over old ground covered in the many previous posts on Sarah, but.... Have the details of the birth and death of an infant named Sarah Ellen Cahill in Dec qtr 1894 been investigated? Parents etc?

Birth: West Derby - 8b - 506 - Dec qtr 1894;
Death: aged 0 - West Derby - 8b - 338 - Dec qtr 1894;

Cheers,
Dickiesam

[Tina]

H Dickiesam
To be honest I don't remember if the death had been looked at.
I'm sure though it would have been found.
Alan willl know the outcome.

Tina
thanks..

[Dominex]

There was a birth too for this Sarah Ellen Dec Qtr 1894. Think it may have been checked out to make sure it wasn't a mistake with the age, but I think Alan may have got the birth cert for this 1 too. Can't remember now.

Sue

[alan donougher]

Hi to everyone !
Sorry to say that I purchased both of those certificates on the off chance but with no luck.
Also bought a marriage cert of a Sarah Ellen to a John Connor in 1910 but again it wasn't my Sarah.
Please keep her in mind.
Thanks,
Alan

[Tina]

Oh Alan..
what else can we do?
1891 do you think she was with another bloke?
I'm so sorry we can't help you.

Tina oxo

[alan donougher]

Tina,
To answer your questions, I dont think there is anything anyone can do more than they have done. I have had tremendous support. I live in hope that some missing pages from the 1891 census turn up with the Cahills in them, but that still wouldn't solve the mystery of the disappearance.
Do I think she had another bloke ? A distinct possibility but no more a possibility than the marriage may have just been a bad one and she couldn't take anymore and just left on her own.
Now if Dr Who and his Tardis would just touch down in NSW ........!!!

Thans

Alan

[Liverbird]

Hi Alan, I have looked back at some, but not all of the many post's you have made concerning Sarah Ellen and what has struck me in your last request was that you said her husband had waited 7 years before marrying again, it may have already been mentioned to you in other posts but I think the 7 year time period is the legal one for time elapsing were a person who dissapears can be considered deceased. You are probably right in thinking her marriage was a bad one and she had no options, she could easily have reinvented herself by going into service, what makes you think she went abroad and have you looked for Sarah minus her middle name?

I know it can be frustrating I have made searches over many years with my gt grandparents, a lot due to mis-spellings in names on census and middle names left out, the biggest cock-up on the 1911, I know you will carry on looking as I have, it's going on 20 years for one of mine and I have to accept that I may never find the answer, good luck L.B

[alan donougher]

Liverbird & everyone!

I'm not sure who gave me the following information but I will share it. It concerns the 7 year wait that James Cahill went through before he married a second time.
"Benjamin Order"
The Benjamin order (from the case of Benjamin in 1902) is an English law order made by the court for the distribution of assests on death when it is uncertain whether or not a beneficiary is alive. The order authorises the the personal representatives of the deceased(who will be administering the estate) to distribute the property on the basis that that the beneficiary is dead (or on some other basis): the personal representatives are thus protected from being sued if the beneficiary is in fact alive and entitled.

Hope this makes sense to you and has relevance to my search.

Regarding searching for Sarah under other names...... I have tried all combinations of Sarah, Ellen, Cahill, Williams & Fox (the last 2 being her parents' surnames. Plenty of possibilities but no proof unless willing to purchase many, many certificates. Plus Freebmd lists the deaths of dozens of "Unnamed Females" who fit Sarah's profile age and locationwise.

Thanks

Alan

[dickiesam]

Alan and the crew,
So much ground has been covered and so many stones turned over... it looks like this will remain one of those intriguing, and annoying, mysteries that one can endlessly hypothesise about. Perhaps she will turn up in someone else's research with another surname. It's a case for the X Files!
Good luck,
Dickiesam

[Tina]

Hi Dickiesam
This is one of our Cold Cases for deffo.
1891 still bugs me, little Ellen/Helen/Helena...she has to be somewhere.
Sarah must have been recorded as a missing person, marriage 7 years later which was the legal time frame.
The old saying is there are records for everything, it's knowing how to find them.
Did James go to the local Bridewell/Cop Shop when Sarah went missing and give a report?
It's maddening..

Tina

[dickiesam]

Hi Tina,
I can think of several scenarios where the family would formulate the story that Alan related about Ellen going out for milk and coming back to an empty house. Did the family try emigration, explaining their absence from the 1891. Did Sarah 'disappear' into the 'sticks' with a new man and James came home with just his daughter? If something nasty happened to Sarah in Liverpool there would be a record of her death.

I don't believe Sarah simply vanished without warning or trace. Experience with a couple of family tales with my lot suggests the circumstances of Sarah leaving the family home were too embarrassing to stand on their own. Maybe the mention of milk indicates she ran off with the milkman? )

Stranger things have happened! Hence the invention of a tale of mystery within the family. I wonder when did James actually set up house with his 'new' wife-to-be? Mysteries like this are so frustrating but can stretch the mind wonderfully!
Cheers,
Dickiesam