Liverpool & South West Lancashire FHS - Forum

Long shot I know, but always worth a try.

I was just reading another thread on the Southport section with a similar tale.

My Great Uncle William Holmes had 3 or 4 children, one William was sent off to a relative in the UK, 2 or 3 were shipped off by Barnados to Canada one of them was Rita Holmes born 1931, who we know went on to perform with 'Holiday on Ice' as she did visit Blackpool on one occasion and sent a photograph to her Grandmother who was responsible for 'shipping her off' she was none to pleased about it seems.

I cant find any information on who/when William married I assume it to be 1929c so no mothers name.

As you know from another thread, they did at one time live in Pitville Avenue, Mossley Hill were I am told the Holmes family did remain aside from Granny who moved to Southport to be closer to her daughter Lillian.

The family are not making it easy to find them.

any ideas?

Lynda

Well if you know that Rita was born in 1931 the logical thing to do is to find her mother's surname, see if there were any other children with the same combination of parents names and work back from there to find a marriage.

Unfortunately you don't say where Rita was born. On the assumption that it was in the Liverpool area I found a Rita M Holmes born in the last quarter of 1930 (West Derby 8b 700) but the mother's maiden name is Holmes.

This means that either both her parents were named Holmes, or the mother was unmarried. The other alternative is that I have the wrong Rita ........

There are 20 born between 1931 +/- 2 years.

If you are just looking for descendants, have you advertised in any local newspapers? most of them online have an Old Pals or "searching for" section.

Hi

Was Rita their firstborn child or did she have older siblings as that could push the marriage back before 1929

Hi

Theres two Rita Holmes coming into Liverpool on the passeger records on Ancestry.. if anyone can take a look maybe its her..

Colette

If Rita was b 1931 - this one is the likeliest but she did not sail from Canada and the manifest shows her as a nurse. She was a UK citizen and heading for 6 Gladstone Rd Chester

Name: Rita Holmes
Birth Date: 7 Dec 1930
Age: 25
Port of Departure: New York, New York, United States
Arrival Date: 12 Oct 1956
Port of Arrival: Liverpool, England
Ports of Voyage: New York
Ship Name: Britannic
Shipping Line: The Cunard Steamship Company Ltd
Official Number: 0896/01

The other Rita was b 1922 and travelled 1934 with parents William & Lily

Oh Wow, what a lot of info - thank you all for taking the time, much appreciated.

Mary, I found only the same - verbal history from the family is that Rita was the eldest, I think the William Holmes I found in 1931 would be her brother, as I know what happened to him.

Father was William Holmes, and sorry yes he lived in Toxteth area - so I checked West Derby records were I could.

Very interesting the shipping records, wonder if she came back then? I cannot pin point a date for when she was in 'Holiday on Ice' and no info on the net for that one (spent a couple of days searching).

I did not know of the 'lost pals' in the newspapers, I have just contacted a newspaper in Bowness for details on the other side of the family but heard nothing back - another on line one says they do not track lost relatives.

Think one of my next tasks is to locate the local papers then

Again, thank you all very much for your help here.

Lynda

Hi Lynda you say (you think the William Holmes you found in 1931 could be Rita's brother)..What record are you refering to ??? a birth registration is it .. if so what was the mothers maiden name ???

AS we can't see any Rita's born 1931 and both kids couldn't have been born the same year unless they were twins.Was she definalty born in Liverpool ???

From Ancestry - there are only 3 birth entries for Rita Holmes born in the Liverpool area in the 1930's - mmn = mothers maiden name

Dec qtr 1930 - Rita M - mmn Holmes
Sept qtr 1935 mmn Fitzsimmons
June qtr 1939 mmn Donnellan

However - as mentioned previously - she could have been born elsewhere and then the family moved to Liverpool

do you know what the theme of the show was that she was in? if so check this web site
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holiday_on ... _Europe.29

http://www.holidayonice.com/

Hi Lynda,

Take a look at this link.

http://disc.yourwebapps.com/discussion. ... on%20Board

A name, RITA BIANCARDI, cropped up, you never know!

Sue

Sorry Collette, that was me getting over excited as per. I meant 1930 for Rita.
Thank you for the holiday on ice records, lots to look at there.

Well, i just got a telephone call from my best friend who is a far more experienced researcher than I, she has located 3 Holmes children, I see one Rita already mentioned here.

It seems more likely the Holmes children I am searching for are Rita born 1939, Williams (first name) and Doreen born to William Holmes and mmn Donnellan, so next step is to send off for that marraige cert to confirm that by address and fathers name. Therefore its Rita and Doreen who were shipped off to Canada through Barnados, no wonder I struggled - have all that to do again now, and somewhere in the memory banks I do think I remember a Doreen.

Thanks to CaroleW for the search on Ancestry, they were deffo born in Liverpool that I do know.

Busy evening ahead me thinks

Thank you again for taking the time to help out, much appreciated.

Lynda

Hi

Have you tried all the Home Children sites? I believe there are records on the Canadian National Archives web site.

However if Rita was born in 1939 I would have thought it was unlikely that she went as a Home child more probably as an evacuee. Do you know what happened to her parents as to why she was sent anyway?

After googling I found this which suggests the sending of children to Canada had stopped by 1939. Web sites can as you know be wrong

And while the Child Migrant Movement to Canada can be said to have officially ended in 1939, (an extra 76 boys were actually sent to Vancouver Island between 1945 and 1948) it boggles the mind to know that Britain continued to literally export children to Australia and South Africa until 1967 and that, in post-war years alone, 10,000 records were deliberately falsified. The children were told both parents were dead; the parents were told that the children had been placed in good British Homes.

Thee is a lot of information on Home Children on the web. I found this on another

Until 1939, Barnardos continued to emigrate children to Canada.

It looks as if , if they went with Barnardos they had to go before 1939

Ed officer

They were married in 1934

Thanks for that

Yep, just done the same research myself and discovered they must have been sent to Australia then. Both my Dad and my Aunt have said for years they couldnt remember which, we just assumed with Rita being in 'Holiday on Ice' it woudl have been Canada.

I see there are no records for 1947 when they started up again sending the children away, so need a big re think on how on earth to proceed from there, not knowing were in Australia they will have been taken.

The story goes that William (the father) went off to war, during which time his wife cleared off abandoning the children with Florance his mother, who then could not cope with them, so William (s) stayed with one of the other daughters and the girls were shipped off via Barnados.
Rita came back to the UK at some point travelling with 'Holiday on Ice' visited Florence gave her a photograph of her in costume (which the family now cant find)was very bitter about the whole thing and did say they would not see her again.

I have now sent off for the marriage cert to confirm I at least have the parents correct.

thank you again for help so far, sorry for confusion.

Lynda

Hi Lynda..

So we now have Margaret Donnellan and William Holmes marrying oct-dec 1934 Lpool North

3 children
Doreen 1935
William 1938
Rita 1939

William Holmes mother was Florence.. do we know his fathers name..

You say a daughter Lilian is that Florence's daughter.. William's sister.. ? how many other siblings did William have..Arent any of their children still alive who may know something.. they would be cousins of Rita,Will & Doreen..

Do we know what happened to Doreen did she come back from wherever ??

Sorry for all the questions

Hi

I think you need to try and find out about William's war service if possible. Did he return after the war or was he killed.? If he returned he would have been around by 1947. What happened to the mother have you tracked her down anywhere.

I would have expected that the children would have been evacuated. Children's homes were also evacuated in some areas. Have you contacted Barnardos to see if they can help?

A relation of mine was evacuated. His father was abroad with the services, his mother worked on the buses and was killed in the blackout. The children were then put in a police orphanage as their father was a policeman. They were taken out in 1946/7.

I have checked the outgoing passenger lists on find my past and there is no Rita or Doreen Holmes recorded up to 1960

ED officer

Hi Lynda,

Was wondering if that link I gave was of any use. People have posted at the bottom of the list, maybe someone there may have known her. It was regarding a Blackpool reunion of 'Holiday on Ice,' from past years I think.

It also mentions there's a few groups on Facebook for Holiday on Ice.
Sue

Hi Sue
Nothing on the link I could find no, thanks I did take a look. Good idea to try the facebook one, I am on facebook just never have the time to bother with it (more interesting things to be doing )

Lynda

colette wrote:Hi Lynda..

So we now have Margaret Donnellan and William Holmes marrying oct-dec 1934 Lpool North

3 children
Doreen 1935
William 1938
Rita 1939

William Holmes mother was Florence.. do we know his fathers name..

You say a daughter Lilian is that Florence's daughter.. William's sister.. ? how many other siblings did William have..Arent any of their children still alive who may know something.. they would be cousins of Rita,Will & Doreen..

Do we know what happened to Doreen did she come back from wherever ??

Sorry for all the questions

Hey questions are there to help, no worries there.

Mothers name Florence, fathers name Thomas. My nan was Lillian Williams sister, she passed in 1988, Gladys and Florence jnr have also passed on, Charlie was a victim of the war, mabel, Albert and Violet all died in childhood. Poor Florence had 9 children in total.

Gladys, Florence, Charlie did not have children. All I have are my Dad and Aunt to ask and they know less than I have found out myself.

I didnt even know about Doreen till yesterday, so have no information on her at all.

Many Thanks
Lynda

Education Officer wrote:Hi

I think you need to try and find out about William's war service if possible. Did he return after the war or was he killed.? If he returned he would have been around by 1947. What happened to the mother have you tracked her down anywhere.

I would have expected that the children would have been evacuated. Children's homes were also evacuated in some areas. Have you contacted Barnardos to see if they can help?

A relation of mine was evacuated. His father was abroad with the services, his mother worked on the buses and was killed in the blackout. The children were then put in a police orphanage as their father was a policeman. They were taken out in 1946/7.

I have checked the outgoing passenger lists on find my past and there is no Rita or Doreen Holmes recorded up to 1960

ED officer

Mmmh, war service record? not sure how to get that from those years - will try further. William did return from the war, the story goes none too pleased his kids were sent away. I have no idea on the mother, as I mentioned the family said she 'cleared off' her birth record only states mothers name (no father).

We only have G Grandma Florences word the children were sent via Barnardos, my Nan was furious when she found out we are assuming (again) this was long after the event, as Nan had married and moved to Southport by then, having her first child in 1939 same year as Rita - chances are she will not have known of the 'goings on' back home till some time later.

Thanks for checking passenger lists, I know I have no way of tracking them in Austrailis without the actual location.

Lynda

Hi Lynda how long and what years where they at Pitville and who is THEY ????

Regards