The Franks family

Post by **Barbara B** » 28 Mar 2009 11:33

I have found the Franks family on various censuses but am having a bit of trouble with the father. On the 1881 census he is listed as William Franks born 1846. On the original he is listed as born in Liverpool but in the last column are the initials 'BS'. Does this stand for British subject? If so I think William may be recorded as Gabriel on the 1871 census and he's born in Poland. I suspect this because on his daughter, Marion's, marriage details he is down as William Gabriel! I do wish those ancestors would find a name they liked and stick to it.
Has anyone any thoughts on Mr Franks?
Cheers
Barbara

Post by **Dominex** » 28 Mar 2009 11:59

Hi Barbara,

Are the occupations the same?

Sue

Post by **northmeols** » 28 Mar 2009 15:24

is this the marriage for Marion ?

England & Wales Marriages, 1538-1940

Name: Marion Franks
Gender: Female
Birth Date: abt 1878
Age: 22
Father's Name: William Gabriel Franks

Spouse's Name: Edwin Collier
Spouse's Age: 28
Spouse's Father's Name: Josiah James Collier

Marriage Date: 5 Mar 1900
Marriage Place: Edge Hill, Lancashire, England

Source Citation: Place: Edge Hill, Lancashire, England; Collection: St Mary; -; Date Range: 1892 - 1906; Film Number: 1545767.

Post by **northmeols** » 28 Mar 2009 15:28

If you could give us more details on the family....spouse siblings etc we can put experienced eyes to the problem

Post by **MaryA** » 28 Mar 2009 17:08

Here are the two censuses

1881
31 Bridport Street, Islington
ALL - including the servant are stated to be born Lancs Liverpool B.S.
William Franks Head M 35 Tailor
Mary Ann Wife M 31
William son 8 Scholar
Elizabeth daur 6 "
Newmand? daur 4 "
Martha daur 3
Samuel son 1
Ann Le Geant Servant Unm 17 Domestic Servant
RG11; Piece: 3628; Folio: 59; Page: 3

1871
13 White Mill Street, Islington
Gabriel Franks Head Mar 28 Tailor Poland
Mary A Wife M 22 Liverpool Lancs
John Langford Boarder M 44 Mariner Portsmouth
Augusta " " M 43 Dressmaker Southampton
James Crane " M 68 Cabinet Maker Dublin
Jane " " M 50 Wife "
Margaret Stanton Boarder Unm 34 Seamstress Dublin
RG10; Piece: 3787; Folio: 95; Page: 22

Gabriel Frank married Mary A McClelland 1868 Liverpool, St. John

I don't see a marriage of a William Frank[s] to a Mary A at the appropriate time, unless they married outside of Liverpool, which is probably unlikely since Mary A was born Liverpool.

I don't see a death for Gabriel during the next ten years, nor do I see him in 1881.

But I do see a death for William Gabriel Franks Q3 1888 Liverpool 8b 67 age 42 which fits with your William since Mary Ann - by the way she is transcribed as Margaret - is a widow in 1891.

This child born in about 1877 puzzles me - seems to have been written Murian in 1891 - I think she must be Marian, born Q2 1877. I was hoping the name was even more unusual and it might have been a clue to her being named after another ancestor, shame.

Post by **Tina** » 29 Mar 2009 11:45

Young Samuel who Mary found in 1881 census, this looks like him 1901
Samuel Franks 21 bro in law single butcher's manager
Marion Collier 24 marr
Edward Collier 30 butcher's asst
Elzbth 3mnths all born Lpool
Living in Low Hill
RG13/3492/29/13

Marriage Marion Franks to Edwin Collier
march qtr 1900 W Dby Free BMD
Lancs BMD Edge Hill St Mary's

Regards
Tina

Post by **Dominex** » 29 Mar 2009 16:53

Looking at it, I would say they were one of the same.

Sue

Post by **Barbara B** » 29 Mar 2009 18:05

Thanks to everyone for the interest and input.
On balance I think they are on and the same person as well. Still don't know what BS stands for as it's in the column for indicating whether someone is a lunatic etc!
Many thanks to Mary for finding the marriage. That might give us some clues as to Gabriel/William's birthplace.
Young Samuel is the one I was following when I started but I know quite a lot about him - he emigrated to Canada and then America and I'm in touch with his great granddaughter who still lives there. I am looking into her family tree - another branch of the Turners if anyone remembers Henry Bott Gastriel Turner.
Cheers
Barbara

Post by **Hilary** » 29 Mar 2009 21:52

Hi

BS usually stands for British Subject. He may have been naturalised and would be a British subject. Have a look on the National Archives website. get up the catalogue and out him in you never know what you might find. He could have been been born elsewhere but be born to Bristish parents and as such would be a British Subject or he might have just said he was a British Subject if his place of birth was elsewhere.

Ed officer

Post by **Tina** » 30 Mar 2009 10:59

Hi Barbara
Yes I remember Henry Bott G Turner bn Lpool 1877
right??
If B.S was listed under lunatics etc perhaps it means he was
"Bluddy Stupid"....
Just Joshing..don't take offence...

Tina

Post by **Barbara B** » 30 Mar 2009 15:17

Thanks Ed Officer I'll have a look on there.
Tina - maybe it stands for 'Bit simple' no offence - it made me giggle!
Barbara