Liverpool & South West Lancashire FHS - Forum

Am looking for any info on a Millicent Downey. Millicent was 3 years old on the 1901 census living with her parents Daniel F Downey and Sarah E Downey at 3 Kimnel Street Liverpool. In 1911 she was living with her step father Alfred James Kelly and Helen (Sarah E) Kelly -previously Downey) and brothers Reginald and Charles Downey and some Kelly children at 7 Cobden Terrace.
What happened to Millicent? Of the Sarah Ellen and Daniel Downey family she is the only one with incomplete data....family lore thinks she emigrated to Canada ? with a husband to Satskatchawen.
Had not been been able to find her on Ellis Island record. Have also checked Canadian source again found nothing. Of course if she was married, then she would be travelling under a different name which we do not know.
I also check online free BMD but again came up without anything. No record of a marriage or a death.
I assume she would have been married around 1915 - 1925 (b: Millicent Downey Toxteth Park 8b 236 1898 1st) if I have the correct birth date. There is another possible birth (Birth - Mary Winifred Downey W. Derby 8b 341 1894 2nd) which would make her a bit older. Others were listed as born in Toxteth Park so I assuming the 1st record is the correct one plus the 1901 census lists her as age 3 and 13 in 1911.
Any ideas would be welcome.
Thanks
md

FreeBMD is not as comprehensively transcribed in the more recent years, from about 1917 the marriages are a bit patchy still.

The only way to be certain of checking every year is by using the full BMD indexes, online either on Ancestry or findmypast or at a library with a family history section that should have the indexes on microfiche.

Hi MD,
I suggest making certain of the child's name by applying for a birth cert for the child you think is the right one. Use Reference Checking and put in both parents. That way if you have the wrong one, it will cost only cost about £4 instead of the full £7.

Having the right name for Millicent or Mary will make browsing the indexes for a marriage a lot easier. I did notice that while a Lancashire FreeBMD search for a Millicent marriage didn't give a hit, it did show that most, if not all years between 1915 and 1925 are 99.9% transcribed.
Cheers,
Dickiesam

Thanks Mary and Dickiesam,
I think the name Millicent Downey is a definite. She is recorded with the the right family in 1903 and 1911...known as Millie by some older members of the Downey family...then she disappears!! probably to Canada as recollected but not found on any of the shipping records yet. Thought maybe she married before she emigrated but alas no marriage records found.
Would be grateful if anyone with ancestory subscription could check for a marriage of Millicent.
md

Hello again MD,
Found these in the departing UK passenger lists on FindmyPast:

DOWNEY I M; yob = 1898; Female; departed 1920 from Liverpool bound for Canada (Montreal).

DOWNEY M A; yob = 1894; Female; departed 1916 from Liverpool bound for Canada (Saint John NB).

These were the only 'good match' female Downeys listed from 1915 to 1930 out of Liverpool for Canada. The years of birth may be only approximate. In total, including all departure ports in the UK, there are 15 fem Downeys leaving for places as far away as Brazil and Australia. Only 4 are abt the right age and are bound for Canada and the US. Of these only the above two are a decent match.

However, if Millicent didn't have a second forename the above two seem to be ruled out, unless there's a transcription error. Unfortunately, at the moment, my subscription doesn't extend to seeing the original document.
Regards,
Dickiesam

Cheers Dickiesam,
The Downey born 1898 looks good..will find out how I can look at the actual shipping records...her birth certificate would be a good idea for her full name. Does anyone know if the Liverpool Record Office hold the shipping records.
Thanks again
Md

Am now totally confused,,, whilst checking out IGI for Millicents birth, have found her (with correct parents and d.o.b) born in 1898 and death in 2000 in Liverpool!!!
md

Hi again,
I think you need to track down out where the IGI data came from. I can't find a death for a Millicent Downey in Lancashire from 1984 to 2005. So did she have a married name?
Cheers,
Dickiesam

I agree, it just states 'submitted by a lds submitter'....will look into how I can find out who submitted.
md

Hi again!
Just occurred to me that if a married Millicent did actually die in 2000 as submitted by an LDS member, she would have been 102. Is there a register somewhere of centenarians so the Queen can send her telegrams? I assume it's still a custom for her to do so? Perhaps an enquiry to the GRO might elicit something?

I am wondering if this entry is a case of a well-meaning LDS contributor putting 2 and 2 together and making 5? I have come across incorrect information on the LDS site before, so I never take it as 'gospel'.
Regards,
Dickiesam

Hello MD,
If Millicent did live to be 100 in 1998 and was unmarried, she might have received a greetings message from the Queen. The Anniversaries Officer at Buckingham Palace may still have a record. The sending of greetings by the monarch is not an automatic process. Each greeting has to be applied for by a relative etc. Worth exploring? See this URL:

http://www.royal.gov.uk/HMTheQueen/Quee ... sages.aspx

Good luck,
Dickiesam

Cheers everyone for suggestion...will follow them up ..lds submitter is being pursued...and if Millicent lived until 2002 then death certificate is one to look for. Will come back to forum if/when I find the answers.
Thanks
md

Hi

It might be worth finding out who is actually in the grave. Just because someone is mentioned on a gravestone doesn't mean they are actually there it could be just a remembrance. Also the burial entries will very likely have the address of the person in the grave.

As it's so recent you may have to contact Liverpool cemeteries and pay for the information as I don't know whether the lists at the Record office go up to so recently.

Ed Officer

Hi not sure what years you have searched for a marriage for Millicent..but i had a go from 1918-1930 and couldn't see one..It may be possible married late in life..

What about her step fathers name KELLY could she have changed her surname ?? also her two brothers are you a descendant of one of them ?

So family stories say she went to Canada, what about children anyone say she had any??

Regards

A marriage of Millicent Irene Fulton Downey to Ernest Fowler in Manitoba ,Canada on 20th July 1970 found. Looks like the Millicent we were looking for...also passenger records for Millicent Irene Downey on The Melita,arrived in Quebec 17th July 1920 final destination Qu'Appelle, Saskatchawen. Still more questions but for now thanks to everyone for their help...a marriage certificate will be sent for and passenger records to be further studied.
Thanks everyone for their help.
md

Hi,
Great finding a very good match. There's still a problem with that IGI entry though because there are no deaths of either a Millicent Downey or Fowler in either England or Wales, let alone Liverpool, Lancs, during the period 1985 and 2005. In view of the latest info re Canada, I wonder if she actually died there? Good luck with the chase,
Dickiesam

We have the following information about the IGI records from a family member who is familiar with the LDS site - here is the reply about the date of death .

BIRTH: Free BMD Millicent Downey Mar 1898 Toxteth Park 8b 236. Accepted because she is shown as a 3 year old on the 1901 and living in Toxteth!
The death entry is because of the 100 year block out and only an approximate date.
The IGI entry does not show any real information that we do not already know

Have someone looking out for the death details across the pond in Canada.. I tend to agree with you that she lived and died in Canada...

Will keep you posted if more is found...

Hello,
Thanks for the explanation about the IGI site. But, why on earth put the place of death as Liverpool, Lancashire? I find that quite mystifying and very misleading. Does the '100 year block-out' mean that they assume because Millicent was over 100 years old, she must be dead? Why not say so in the entry and omit the assumption as to place of death?

On the bright side, though, you seem to be getting somewhere at last. Long may it continue.
Cheers,
Dickiesam

Thanks
md

Finally, the marriage certificate for Millicent has arrived...can anyone make out the occupation of Ernest..




PS Thanks Mary A!