Liverpool & South West Lancashire FHS - Forum

Can anyone point me in the right direction for these please?

An approx year and location to start me off would be good. I thought I had them the other night, but after speaking to my Aunt tonight - its probably not them.

So here goes

James Joseph Richards - c1859 - possibly Stephney London
James Jospeh Richards - c 1890 (son of the above)

Lily Violet Bird (possibly Lillian) 1890 - 1974 - either London or Birmingham. She died in Warrington Cheshire

I know that JJ Senior was something political - Union minded and that he and his family came North to seek work. Not sure if this was before or after JJ junior was born.

Lily Violet married JJ Junior approx 1918 and I have been told that she worked for the family - boy, bet that caused a few raised eyebrows - wonnder if this was why they moved away from London??

Lily also had a sister called may Violet and a brother called William Henry.
A GGr Gran has been mentioned - name likely to have been Linnie. Spelling unclear in Diaries.

JJ Junior actually went on to become the local town Mayor - got pics of him in all his regalia.

Many thanks

Sonja

Hi Sonja,

Do you have the marriage cert for Lily and Joseph?

I think they married in Manchester in 1913.

this is from free BMD

England & Wales, FreeBMD Marriage Index: 1837-1983
about Lily V Bird
Name: Lily V Bird
Year of Registration: 1913
Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
Spouse's Surname: Richards
District: Bolton
County: Greater Manchester, Lancashire
Volume: 8c
Page: 553

Their ages and respective father's names would be on the marriage cert, then we could try and go further back from there.

Jan

I am sure it is their marriage as I did a reverse look-up

England & Wales, FreeBMD Marriage Index: 1837-1983
about James J Richards
Name: James J Richards
Year of Registration: 1913
Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
Spouse's Surname: Bird
District: Bolton
County: Greater Manchester, Lancashire
Volume: 8c
Page: 553

Jan

Was Lily Violet born in Birmingham or Cardiff?

There are two Lily Violet Bird births registered in 1890, in the Apr-June Q

(from death index Oct- Dec Q 1974 gives date of birth as 24th April 1890)

I found the one in Birmingham on the 1891 census, father's name Henry Gas tube cutter.

Greet Green Road

Henry Bird Head Mar age 36 Gas Tube cutter bn Halsall Staff
Sarah do wife age 36 bn West Bromwich
Eliza Ann do dau age 16
Sarah do dau age 14
Christiana do dau age 7
William Hy do son age 4
Jeremiah do son age 2
LILLY VIOLET dau age 11 months

All children born West Bromwich

Jan

Hi there Sonja
I have the Richards in 1901

106 Bridge Rd Tipton Staffs
James Joseph Richards 47 b Poplar London a ? (boiler) maker
Mary A 41 b Stodiston Shropshire
Ernest 14 boiler?maker's helper
James J 11, Minnie 7, Florrie 6, May 4 all bn Tipton Staffs.

Go into reverse for 1891
11A Church Yard Rd Tipton
Joseph J Richards 35 bn Poplar boilermaker
Mary A 30 bn Stodiston, Ernest 4, Joseph J 1.

I just have to feed the dog and water my pot plants.
Back soon
Tina

Hi Jan
Good wombating in 1891 especially with bro Wm Henry whom Sonja mentioned and also born in Staffs as was James J jr.
She has a brother Jeremiah..oh gawd...I'll be singing 'Jeremiah was a Bullfrog" for the next week!

1901 41 Sand Bank St West Brom
sadly Sarah Bird 46 wid own means, Christina 17 wool winder, Wm H 17 iron socket ??, Jeremiah 12, Violet L 10, George A 8, Dorothy 6 all bn West Brom.

Death West Brom dec qtr 1899 Henry Bird aged 45yrs.

Warmie today around 32, just check my spring onions and be back
Tina

Good morning Tina,

I was just about to post the same for the 1901 for the Bird family in West Brom, found them last night but was too tired to post the rest hahaha.

Jan

Hi Jan
It's 5.30 pm now...
There's another little girl in 1881 for the Birds, Charlotte 7.
Sonja can get all this from familysearch.
I'm no night owl Jan, the sun comes up so early here, who could lie in bed?? I do enjoy reading the over night posts in the forum.
Tina x

Thank you so much for the leads.


I

think they married in Manchester in 1913.

this is from free BMD

England & Wales, FreeBMD Marriage Index: 1837-1983
about Lily V Bird
Name: Lily V Bird
Year of Registration: 1913

This sure does tie up with the scrapps of info I have jotted down.

Off to the Graveyard on Sunday to see how many of those names match up.

Some of brothers and sisters (not sure who) took the ticket to Australia.....so there are some of my not so distant relatives down under. I do know that the men fought under the Australian flag in WW2 - sadly not returning.

So thats a whole new avenue to explore when I get Lily sorted out on the tree.

Many thanks

Sonja

PS - sat here freezing in a mucky murky Manchester

OK so I should be working, but the kids Im Nanny to are happy at the TV....be a shame to disturb their quality time with Winnie and Co!!

I think I got Henry Bird's occ wrong, he's a glass lube cutter, it must have been my eyes playing up last night hahaha.

Jan

Not Jeremiah I hope!
Tina

Marriage
James Joseph Richards jun qr 1884 Dudley (which spans Staffs/Worcs)
to Mary Ann Price.
Tina

Hello again Sonja
This is interesting
birth 1917 sep qtr Leigh Gt Manchester Lancs
Violet M Richards
mother's maiden name Bird.
Any help
Tina

Jan
many thanks about occupation, it holds the key here.

1861 G?? Green Rd West Brom
William Bird 40 gas tube maker born Norfolk listed as deaf
Elizabeth 33 bn Leicester,Rebecca 12 bn Leics, Henry 6 bn Staffs.BB
Big gap between the children.
Tina x

Thank you so much for the leads.


This sure does tie up with the scrapps of info I have jotted down.

Off to the Graveyard on Sunday to see how many of those names match up.

Some of brothers and sisters (not sure who) took the ticket to Australia.....so there are some of my not so distant relatives down under. I do know that the men fought under the Australian flag in WW2 - sadly not returning.

So thats a whole new avenue to explore when I get Lily sorted out on the tree.

Many thanks

So I went to the Graveyard - searched all over, when in the last light of the day hubby found a grave - and it was her sister Violet May BIRD and her husband.
So thats one lead tied up. Also a snippet that my Gran Lilly Violet was in fact cremated - which thinking back I sort of remember now. So where would she be. Wonder where James Jospeh is.....probably in there with him.....which going off info recently received wonthave gone down too well, as they where spitfires together, he was supposed to have been a bit of a bully - but she got strong towards him and battled back with her tongue.....

Been distracted by the other side of the family a bit - the DEVEREUX and OWENS......

Sonja

Hi Sonja
I know your Dad isn't well in hospital.
When you get some free time (yeah right)
Could you please give us a low down on your posting please.
It's a bit jumbled
Tks me dear
Tina

Tina Morana wrote:Hi Sonja
I know your Dad isn't well in hospital.
When you get some free time (yeah right)
Could you please give us a low down on your posting please.
It's a bit jumbled
Tks me dear
Tina

Sorry Tina - reading back it does read very garbled!!

So new info in

Lily Bird (1890 - 1974) m James Joseph Richards (1859 - 1947)

8/11/1913
St George Marty Bolton

Lilly had at least 2 sisters

Other sister called Cissie (sp?) no found yet - lived Bolton, died Golborne/Lowton area around 1989

brother William Henry Bird (c 1896 ) not found

plus at least 2 other brothers who emigrated to Australia around 1920 - 1930

Found the grave of Violet May Hewtitt (nee Bird) 1906 - 1974
Matthew Hewitt - 1909 - 1978

Father of Lilly not proven yet.

Hi Sonja
I hope you are a little warmer!
You made me chuckle with typo Hewtitt...you've got Birds on the brain...

Violet M Richards mother nee Bird bn 1917 Leigh which I've listed, here is her marriage,
1938 Lowton St Lukes
Violet May Richards to Mathew Hewitt
Wigan & Leigh Rego C11L/4/38
She's Lily's daughter not Lily's sister, whose grave you found??
Did the grave say "1906" for the birthyear??
If so, then "Houston we have a problem"....
Happy New Year
Tina

Lo tis me again
This could be worth a look up with regard to sister Cissy Bird.
Cassie Bird to Frederick Coulthard
1925 Wigan R/O or Registrar attended
Wigan & Leigh rego ROW/166/22.
Perhaps the Coulthard name may ring a bell with someone.
Cheers
Tina

Tina Morana wrote:Hi Sonja
I hope you are a little warmer!
You made me chuckle with typo Hewtitt...you've got Birds on the brain...

Violet M Richards mother nee Bird bn 1917 Leigh which I've listed, here is her marriage,
1938 Lowton St Lukes
Violet May Richards to Mathew Hewitt
Wigan & Leigh Rego C11L/4/38
She's Lily's daughter not Lily's sister, whose grave you found??
Did the grave say "1906" for the birthyear??
If so, then "Houston we have a problem"....
Happy New Year
Tina

Hi Tina

Why the problem Houston?

The unknown Bird mother - of Lilly Violet and May Violet both born Birmingham/West Midlands area - she has numerous children. Some of which we know she lost either in preganancy or early years. Twins being at least one set I Know of.....as I was nervous I was gonna have twins....that delight instead went to my cousin!!

The grave reads;

Violet May Hewitt 2/11/73 age 56 (making her birth year of - 1919, which give or take the 'lost/gained years as is typical)

Matthew Hewitt 21/6/78 - age 78 (making him 1910)

Arrrgh!!!! Think my head is going to explode.

You know what? As I said to my hubby last night - Those Birds can just go tweet off!! Much laughing all round....let me get my head straight and update you.

Sonja