Margaret Sinnott - Toxteth ?

Post by **serveta paul** » 25 Jul 2007 22:06

My brick wall is Margaret Sinnott born around 1895 I think as she had a child in 1916 ( poss earlier , poss a tad later ).
she is unmarried on the cert.
I have been told that if the father was killed in the war before the birth she could not enter his name on the registration. Not totally sure on that one.
She was a 'bottle washer' on Peter Sinnott's birth cert ( 1916 child ).
He was born Toxteth.
Was told that she may have been born in Ireland and went back there to raise Peter who returned to England in about 1937 aged 21.
When I lay my hands on the address, I'll post it up ,but is eluding me for now.

ANY help appreciated.
This is stalling my tree now.

Post by **simone** » 25 Jul 2007 22:42

Hi

There a couple of possibles in 1901--
RG13 3466 46 34 - at 4 Laugham Street, Kirkdale
Name Age
Ernest Sinnott 11 b Liverpool
Francis Sinnott 19 Joiner Carpenter b Liverpool
Herbert Sinnott 5 b Liverpool
Leo Sinnott 16 b Liverpool
Margaret Sinnott 40 b Liverpool
Margaret Sinnott 8 b Liverpool
Michael P Sinnott 40 b Ireland, Theatrical Stage Carpenter
William Sinnott 20 Railway Clerk b Liverpool

RG13 3470 156 43 at 142 Breamer? St

This one has a brother Peter so she may have called her son after him

Name Age
Dennis Sinnott 3 b Liverpool
Helen Sinnott 7 b Liverpool
John Sinnott 48 b Ireland Dock Labourer
John Sinnott 22 b Liverpool Dock Labourer
Laurence Sinnott 9 b Liverpool
Margaret Sinnott 42 b Liverpool
Margaret Sinnott 14 b Liverpool
Nicholes Sinnott 5 b Liverpool
Peter Sinnott 13 b Liverpool

Also a Margt Sinnott b Liverpool 1891, a scholar in St Elizabeths Institute
RG13 3486 130 4

but then ther's this one in Toxteth Park....at 55 Wolfe Street
all family born Liverpool
RG13 3427 103 26
Name Age
Catherine Sinnett 4
John Sinnett 1
Margaret Sinnett 42
Margaret Sinnett 6
Peter Sinnett 38 Dock Labourer, (named after granddad maybe?)

Did Margaret eventually marry? You could do with a marriage couldn't you to see who her dad is

Simone x

Post by **dot326** » 26 Jul 2007 00:29

The last family in Wolfe St---
Peter Sinnott m Margaret Jackson 1892 West Derby Register Office or Registrar Attended.

If the mother was not married, she could only register the baby with her name--no father's name---unless he attended the registration and gave his permission.

Dorothy

Post by **serveta paul** » 26 Jul 2007 17:43

Thanks for that.
I have found most of the 1901 stuff not sure if I tried a wrong spelling so will take a look again at that.
I have been through the marriages after the birth in 1916 to see if she married later as some did but no good matches.

I can only assume she went to Ireland and possibly got married there.
It would be good if I could check the 1911 census

I will dig out the birth cert and see what the address was when he was born.

You may have gathered that Peter ( Joseph ) Sinnott was my grandfather.
I did know him as a boy but as you guys know, no one talks about family to kids.

My father knows a little more, but not absolutely sure how it goes as my grandfather never seemed to talk family.
He was the black sheep as he ( alledgedly ), a Catholic, married a Jewish Hungarian refugee between the wars ( a marriage I also cannot find

).

hope you guys are not too bored with this

I have helped a lot of people with their trees as you are helping me, and sometimes fresh eyes and eagerness have found what others have not.
I'm sure we've all been there.

Post by **Tina** » 02 Aug 2007 00:19

Hi Paul, have you time frame for when grandpa married his refugee wife?
Was your father their eldest? The marriage could be listed, wrongly transcribed. I know you said between the wars but grandpa didn't come back to England until he was 21 in 1937.
Could grandpa have married under his adopted name?
I look forward to hearing from you, regards Tina

Post by **Tina** » 02 Aug 2007 00:24

Oops sorry Paul, have re-read your listing, not sure why I thought he had been adopted....another mature moment...Tina

Post by **dot326** » 02 Aug 2007 01:24

Does your father not remember anything about his mother???

Perhaps you need to get your father's birth certificate---that should give mother's name.---then you can look for Peters marriage.

Why do you think Peter and his mother went to Ireland?? How do you know he was back in UK by 1937? Could he have been back before then?
The only marriage I can find for a Peter Sinnott between 1931-1941 is in 1935 to Rose Charlton.

Dorothy

Post by **serveta paul** » 02 Aug 2007 17:39

Does your father not remember anything about his mother???

Peter Joseph Sinnott was my grandfather and not my father.
He married Muriel Brown around the time of WW2.
My father was born in 1942

Apparently she was a Hungarian refugee and the name 'Brown' is an English name adopted by her to get work.
( and her maiden name on my fathers birth cert )

I quoted 1937 as the year that Peter came 'back' to England from Ireland as my father said that he left Ireland when he was 21.

I have Peters birth cert which shows his mother ONLY ( there can be various reasons for this ) and she is Margaret Sinnott.

Back to my brick wall

Don't get me wrong guys, i really appreciate you bothering to answer, who knows, we may find the answers somehow.

Post by **Tina** » 02 Aug 2007 21:20

Hi could you let us know Margaret's address on the birth cert please. Perhaps one of the forum may find her in directories. Worth a try! Regards Tina

Post by **serveta paul** » 02 Aug 2007 22:05

I have mislaid it for the moment. will find it asap

Post by **Tina** » 02 Aug 2007 22:36

I know the feeling! (put it in a "safe" place)
Have a couple of scrumpy and you'll probably remember. Cheers Tina

Post by **serveta paul** » 03 Aug 2007 10:38

Right guys, I have found the cert. and the address is shown as;

25, Dwerryhouse Street ( not 100% sure that is what it says, but its damn close. Will scan if needs be.)
Toxteth Park

Sub district is Toxteth Park North West
County of Liverpool.

I am aware that a lot of young Catholic Irish girls came to England to have their children and also I was told that there was a large prison in Liverpool and Irish 'rebels' may have been held there and relatives / wives may have lived nearby so they could visit.

Post by **Tina** » 03 Aug 2007 11:46

Hi
If Margaret came from Ireland to have a baby, it would have been taken off her. 99.9% sure of that.
Margaret was in Lpool, had a job, rego'd the baby. Perhaps the family sent her back to Ireland with the baby. She could have said she had been widowed because of the war. Respectable and the rellies would have looked after her and baby son. Who knows?
Dwerryhouse St is still there, see streetmap.co.uk
Warm regards Tina

Post by **Tina** » 15 Aug 2007 13:12

Hi
just wondering how you getting on since our replies?
Tina

Post by **serveta paul** » 21 Oct 2007 20:40

Been a bit busy with a couple of other hobbies.
Will start again on this.
I may try a visit to Liverpool and see what I can find out.
Sometimes the places people lived have a particular type of resident.

Paul

Post by **serveta paul** » 23 Oct 2007 17:41

Is it possible to search the census records to see who was living at a particular address at the time ?

Post by **serveta paul** » 25 Nov 2007 21:12

My child is doing a project at school about WW1 and the soldiers that fought.
All the class tried to pick soldiers with their own surname.

My childs was Francis James Sinnott

This is posted earlier in this thread;

There a couple of possibles in 1901--
RG13 3466 46 34 - at 4 Laugham Street, Kirkdale
Name Age
Ernest Sinnott 11 b Liverpool
Francis Sinnott 19 Joiner Carpenter b Liverpool
Herbert Sinnott 5 b Liverpool
Leo Sinnott 16 b Liverpool
Margaret Sinnott 40 b Liverpool
Margaret Sinnott 8 b Liverpool
Michael P Sinnott 40 b Ireland, Theatrical Stage Carpenter
William Sinnott 20 Railway Clerk b Liverpool

I spent the afternoon looking him up for her and of course it could well be her grt grt Uncle.

He died in 1916 as did William his brother who also fought in WW1.

Name: SINNOTT, FRANCIS JAMES
Initials: F J
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Corporal
Regiment/Service: Machine Gun Corps (Infantry)
Unit Text: 75th Coy.
Date of Death: 13/07/1916
Service No: 6878
Additional information: Son of Michael Paul and Margaret Sinnott, of 82, Brighton St., Seacombe, Cheshire.
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: II. D. 1.
Cemetery: BAPAUME POST MILITARY CEMETERY, ALBERT

My father said that there was a Liam in his grandmothers immediate family........
Could it have been a Leo ???

I have tried to go through all the census and it seems Michael may have arrived in England inbetween 1871 and 1881

Post by **Tina** » 25 Nov 2007 21:27

Hi just to say Gore's 1911 has a Michael Paul Sinnott joiner 26 Church Rd Seacombe.
Unable to spot any of the others under various spellings.
Tina

Post by **serveta paul** » 30 Dec 2007 19:06

I have managed to find who was living at 25 Dwerryhouse street in 1901.
I thought that her parents may have lived there if she was not in fact from Ireland.

What I did was I went to the official 1901 uk census site http://www.1901censusonline.com/
I clicked on the 'address search' button and entered just Dwerryhouse and keyword Liverpool.
This gave me some results but you have to pay to view them.
Not wanting to do this, I went back to Ancestry and went to their 1901 census and then scrolled down where you can choose a county to explore ( Lancashire ) .
From there it asks which 'civil parish' you want

Well, that info is supplied on the official 1901 site so I tapped it in ( Toxteth Park ) and that gave me a choice of 113 districts.
I clicked on a few to see what areas were included and saw the area I needed ( Holy Trinity ) and then just had 39 census records to sift through

Only trouble is, she wasn't there or any with the name Sinnott

Occupants of 25, Dwerryhouse Street, Liverpool 1901 Census.

James O'Hara 38
Mary A O'Hara 37
William O'Hara 13
Charles O'Hara 9
Daniel O'Hara 6
James E O'Hara 5
Mary A O'Hara 4
John O'Hara 2

Post by **Tilly** » 30 Dec 2007 20:50

Don't know whether this is any help but I have found the family of Michael and Margaret Sinnott parents of the soldier named on the 1891 and 1881 censuses

1891 census RG12/2978 folio 18 page 29
23 Eton Street Walton on the Hill
Paul Sinnott H M joiner 30 bn ireland
Margaret wife 30
William son 10
Francis son 9
Leo son 6
Clarice 4
Ernest son 1
all bn Liverpool

1881 census 5 Lovell St Walton on the Hill RG11/3687 folio 6 page 6
Michael Sinnot H M 21 joiner bn Cork Ireland
Margaret wife 21 bn Lioverpool
Wm son 1 bn Liverpool

Their marriage is on lancashirebmd as either West Derby register Office or registrar attended
Michael P Sinnott married Margaret Westhead 1879