Elijah Ashcroft c 1870 T/P L.pool

[Gray]

Really need some help here guys..please//

Am looking for anything on Elijah Ashcroft born c 1870 L.pool(x2 grandfather) cannot find his birth.. anywhere. Have tried all the usual places..IGI/ ancestry/Free Bmd..he is not listed...unless you know better..
Maybe not registered??

All I have:
1901: lived 32 Fletcher street T/P l.pool occ: gas works lab. listed as born L.pool

His marr cert: 14/5/1891 the parish church L.pool
Father: John Ashcroft occ: labourer
witnesses: Edward Connor and Catherine Crellin

Married Mary Ann Cosgrove born 1873 born L.pool

Father Michael Cosgrove occ: Lab
mother: Letitia martin c 1842 Woolton (sometimes transcribed as Teresa)


have mary Ann Cosgove listed:

1881: 8 crt/5/hse clive st. T/P
1891: 10 2 Hse shelley st T/P
1901: 32 fletcher st T/P with Elijah and her 2 babies (my gran Edith Ashcroft born 1897 T/P and her brother John born 1899 T/P

They went on to have quite a large family/Toxteth

Elijah died 1/4/1942 Belmont road hospital ( death cert)

Any help really appreciated

Gray

[colette]

Hi Gary what was his address on marriage cert.

Colette

[Gray]

Morning Colette,

Thanks for the reply.

They both have Parliament street T/P

I believe a cousin tried the records office years ago and they could not find him?

Am wondering now if Elijah is his name??
There is one in Wigan, sent for the cert but not him..

Does not want to be found.

Cheers

Gray

[Teresa Colbeck]

Hi Gray,

Found these records Free BMD

ELIAS Ashcroft Born June Q 1870 Prescot 8b 683

Elias Ashcroft Born Sept Q 1845 Prescot V20 789

Elias Ashcroft Born March Q Toxteth Park 1901 8b 156a


Teresa

[Gray]

Hi again Teresa,

Think I will send for the Prescot one..

This is my last attempt for finding him now.. been looking for years


His age on the marr cert is 21
Mary Ann Cosgrove 19

Thanks for looking for me..

regards

Gray

[Teresa Colbeck]

Good Luck

Teresa

[colette]

Hi so they were both at Parliament St..they must have been engaged when the census was taken as they married 39 days later..

What was Elijah's occupation when he married... he could have been at sea in 1891..
Also you say your gran was born 1897 thats a bit of a gap from 1891 so maybe another child who did not live inbetween.

He could be using a middle name maybe he is a John like his dad... and maybe he was from Ireland.. lots of maybes.

Do you have any of the childrens birth certs...

Colette

[Teresa Colbeck]

Hi Gray

I had a look on Lancashire BMD

Elias Ashcroft Birth 1870

Sub District St Helens Registers at St Helens

Reference SH/88/10.

If you go to site you can print application form. Full postal address given.

Teresa

[Teresa Colbeck]

Hi Gray,

Save your money

I looked at records of deaths on Lancashire bmd

Found these.

Elias Ashcroft who was born 1870 died age 1 year 1871

Elias Ashcroft born 1845 died 1847

Elias Ashcroft born 1901 Toxteth Park died same year


I am beginning to think like Colette, he must have had another christian name.

Teresa

[Gray]

Hi Teresa/Colette

Sorry was cleaning the bathroom

These are the children I have for Elijah and Mary ann

All T/P

Edith 10/9/1897 married Oscar Fairhurst 2nd marr1915/David Gray 1929
John 1899
Catherine 15/2/1902
Elijah c 1904 married Elizabeth Douglas Lloyd 1931
Violet 1912 Married Anthony E Pinder 1933
Rosalie 1918 (Mary Ann was getting on when she had Rosalie)last child
Charles ??

There is a death for Elijah Ashcroft on FreeBMD T/P Sept 1899 8b 169
Have wondered if he was their 1st child

I know there were other family but do not know their names.

Cheers

Gray

[Gray]

Forgot to say

Elijah was a carter on his marr cert

Gray

[colette]

Hi the Charles you refer to.

ALFRED C ASHCROFT BIRTH REG WEST DERBY APRIL-JUNE 1915 8B 1094 MOTHER COSGROVE...

So he is proberbly Charles, theres a big gap between Elijah 1904 and Violet 1912.. so possibly others..

The Elijah born Toxteth June 1899 i think is a red herring as your John was born Dec 1899 so they carnt have two babies born a few months apart..

Another thing cannot see him in any directories which makes me wonder...

Colette

[Gray]

Colette,


Thanks for these..

Only ever knew My uncle as Charles.. never knew he had another name..he married a May ?? Birmingham.. she was a trials bike rider for Triumph and rode speedway in Belle Vue Manchester.. lady ahead of her time

and yes.. Elijah 1899 death must be wrong.

Am going to send for a birth cert for a couple of the children.. there may be another name listed for Elijah Snr. I live in hope.

I know there were other children in between Elijah and Violet but??

Have heard that Elijah Snr was away from home a great deal(working)have no idea where, maybe that is why he is not listed??

really appreciate your time.

Thanks

Gray

[Gray]

Hi Colette,

You have done me proud

I will never listen to family again!!

Here goes:

Alfred Charles Ashcroft 1915 T/P (You found for me)

married: Amy I Kennedy L.pool N 4th qtr 1938 8b 809 (I knew her as May) they did not marry Birmingham.

Amy was born West Derby 4th qtr 1916 8b 492 (mothers maiden name Thomas)

Their first daughter was born

Margaret A Ashcroft Wednesbury 4th qtr 1939 6b 1803 (Birmingham)

I know they only had 1 or 2 children

Well now my Ashcrofts are taking off!!!! after years.

Many thanks

Gray

[Teresa Colbeck]

Hi Gray

Here are other Ashcrofts born Toxteth Park who could be related.

John Ashcroft June Qt 1917

Violet Ashcroft March Qt 1913 Mother Radley

Violet Blanche R Ashcroft bn 19/08/1908 Died Jan 1991

Liverpool V 36 Page 652

Elizabeth D Ashcroft June Qt 1914 Mother Hurty

Henry Ashcroft Sept Qt 1914 Mother Roberts.

There was a John Ashcroft Age 20 1891 Census RG12/2952 Folio 36

99 ELIAS Street Everton He was born Liverpool and he is a Carter but married to an Alice age 18


Teresa

[Gray]

Hi Teresa,

Guess what I will be doing this weekend whatever the weather
Given me some food for thought!!

Have had a wee/LONG!! look today and this is what I can find:
hopefully on the right track!!

Alfred Charles Ashcroft born 1915 L.pool(Colette found for me) married Amy I Kennedy born 1916 L.pool(motorbike rider)
married 1938 L.pool N 4th qtr 1938 8b 809

They had up to 2 children..

one that I know of:
margaret A Ashcroft born 1939 Birmingham..

Am told by family that she went on to marry a famous cricketer(Australian)
After what famliy have told me?? Who knows??

Found today:

Amy's parents:
Fergus F Kennedy
Amy Thomas

married 1915 st peter Aintree LP2001WD/1/437

Thinks will have to have a lie down now


Big thanks for your help Colette/Teresa..much appreciated as always

Gray

[colette]

Hi i am still baffled why hes not listed in the 1894 1900 & 1911 directory.. he was a Carter and a Gas Worker, so wasnt at sea..

Glad Alfred is sorted out...i take it you ave put these peolple on genesreunited ???? if so who is the other person with the same names.. is it a relative of yours..

Colette

[colette]

Hi meant to say the birth reg for a Esther Letitia Ashcroft Toxteth Sept 1896 8b 173 could be yours being Mary Ann's mum was Letitia..
The baby died the same month...

I was looking at all Esther's as maybe his mother was Esther and they named this girl after both mothers..not having much joy though..

Just wondering would baptism records help.. maybe they used St Peters as they married there..

Colette

[colette]

Hi what number Parliament St were they at.. or wasnt there a number..

Col

[Gray]

Hi Colette,

I saw today the death of A Hester Letitia Ashcroft.. and wondered??

Mary Ann Cosgroves mother was a letitia martin
born 1842 Woolton

her parents were:
james martin c 1809 Ireland and Hester White?? born ireland c1809
census:
1841: delf lane wolton L.pool
1851: 68 quarry st much woolton
1861: Court 4 house warwick st. T/P
1871: 4 house/2 crt shaftesbury st T/p
died: 1878 w/d 4th qtr 1878 8b 410

James martin was her 2nd husband/ 1st being Unknown White born c 1818 ?? probably Ireland: they had a daughter Susannah White born c 1837 Ireland
census:
1841: delf lane much woolton
1851: 68 quarry st much woolton (listed as servant)?? cannot trace Susannah after that.
The names you see on genes are probably mine or my cousins
trying to find Elijah
We have both tried a very long time to find him! probably too long!!

This is why it is my last attempt.

One last conundrum:


1901: census says that letitia has a grandaughter living with her. Elizabeth Cosgrove aged 8 born Liverpool. Michael and Letitia only had the one child Mary Ann Cosgrove who married Elijah Ashcroft... Do not know where this child fits in??


Driving me me Mad!! In fact NUTS!!


Thanks for everything

Gray