Liverpool & South West Lancashire FHS - Forum

Hi everyone. I’m Amanda. Thank you for adding me.
So my problem is, my great great grandmother was born Hendrina Degraaff in 1854 Number 19 Jordan st. Quite unusual name I do believe and possibly Dutch origin. When I obtained her birth certificate I found that her father Peter Degraaff had registered her birth. All straight forward one would think. However I cannot find any trace of Peter Degraaff other than this document. When I searched 1861 and 1871 census he is not there. I’m assuming he died but again cannot find any evidence of this and as civil registration only became mandatory in 1874 I’m hazarding a guess that this wasn’t performed. However when I obtained Hendrina’s marriage certificate to an Edward Fletcher Derby it states that her fathers name was John Degraaff! Maybe Hendrina was confused? Maybe she remembers it as his name but may have been a nickname? I’m really not sure.
Would anyone else like to offer their perspective on this name difference please. It states on her marriage certificate that her father was a Mariner. I have just hit a brick wall with this and it’s so frustrating.
Thank you in advance

Hi Amanda and welcome,

I note at various registrations the name was recorded as De Graaff.

1861 Scotland census, just to keep on file for now,

Name: Peter Degraff
Age: 23
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1838
Relationship: Boarder
Gender: Male
Where born: Ryswick, Holland
Registration Number: 644/5
Registration District: Clyde
Civil Parish: Glasgow St George
County: Lanarkshire
Occupation: A B Seaman
ED: Sailors Home

1853

Presumably you have the 1853 marriage record? Ah yes I see you do: https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/ ... 9190/facts

Name: Hannah Elizabeth De Graaff/ John Davenport
Gender: Female
Marriage Age: Full Age
Event Type: Marriage
Marriage Date: 8 Nov 1862
Marriage Place: Walton Breck, Holy Trinity, Lancashire, England

I notice on his marriage certificate he has signed his name what looks like J De Graaff, perhaps Peter was his nickname?

Lost at sea seems likely, an unregistered death was unlikely to get buried here in the UK, even back then.

Well done Bertieone. You would give Sherlock a run for the money

Hi and welcome, sorry I'm coming late to the party but not with any useful information either. I have checked the deaths at sea but without any results.

amanda66 wrote: ↑

25 Nov 2020 14:06

I’m assuming he died but again cannot find any evidence of this and as civil registration only became mandatory in 1874 I’m hazarding a guess that this wasn’t performed.

It would be a very unusual circumstances where a death was not registered. There may have been some births that slipped through the net since I was the responsibility of the Registrar to collect and register the births, but this was mandatory.

Are you aware of this record?

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... S-KGN?i=59

Thank you everyone for all your help.
I never even thought to look in Scotland but I am trying to do that now but new to Scottish Census so a bit slow.
Yes from my information it would appear that Peter De Graaff registered his daughter's Hendrina's birth and then vanished. I find Hannah De Graaff, his wife in 1862 married to a Davenport? So obviously between 1854 and 1862 something has happened to him. That is unless the 1861 Scottish Census is him.
However, their daughter Hendrina is living with an Aunt in 1861 and I cannot find her mother Hannah or Anne anywhere. That is until her 2nd marriage.
I then see Hendrina again in 1871 and she is living with her Mother Hannah but not Davenport as expected, this time she is Hannah Cox, wife to head of household but I cannot find any marriage.
Then in 1891 she is living with her daughter and her daughter's husband as Hannah Cox.
I'm really not bothered about Davenport or Cox but I am the DeGraaff (De Graaff). The name Hendrina seems to me to be of Dutch origin possibly and this name has been passed down through the generations. I used to call my great Aunt Aunty Renee and didn't realise her real name until she died. It would just be nice to know what happened to him.
My thoughts are he must have died. His wife married again and her status is widow. I cannot find anything for his death.

This site is so good. Thank you EVERYONE who tried to help me. I'm living in Australia and finding it very difficult to ask family etc so thanks again.

Bertieone wrote: ↑

25 Nov 2020 20:50

Are you aware of this record?

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... S-KGN?i=59

No I haven't seen this but thank you for finding it.

amanda66 wrote: ↑

26 Nov 2020 08:38

My thoughts are he must have died. His wife married again and her status is widow. I cannot find anything for his death.

Unfortunately if they separated, mutually or otherwise, he may still have been living with his wife thinking he was not going to return and carried on with her life simply calling herself a widow. This would not have been unusual, it's happened on many occasions to our ancestors.

1861,

Transcribed as, Ann E Degroff,

https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/s ... a370adacfd

Thanks for this, you are all fantastic.

I really don't think the Scottish census Peter is my one. I have just bought credits to open it and yes he's 23 years old but says unmarried. That however would have meant he was 15 years old when he did marry back in 1853.

Bertieone wrote: ↑

26 Nov 2020 09:37

1861,

Transcribed as, Ann E Degroff,

https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/s ... a370adacfd

OMG!!! I think you have found her. This would explain especially if she was living in as to why her daughter Hendrina was living with her Aunt. So happy Thank you so much.
How did you do that??

Amanda,

The reason I posted the 1861 census and I was aware of the age if transcribed correctly. In 1853 a 15 year old could marry, however it's still on file.

How I found Ann E Degroff,

Choose 1861 England census, enter, Hannah E Degraaff, lived in, Liverpool.

Ancestry searched and offered their transcribed version.

Thank you again for helping me.
Looks like I can finally lay Hannah Degraaff to rest which is more than can be said for her first husband Peter or John. It’s all very elusive.

amanda66 wrote: ↑

26 Nov 2020 13:12

for her first husband Peter or John. It’s all very elusive.

Looking at the signature again, it seems to me he has incorporated the "P" into the "De"

I'm leaning towards his name being John Peter or perhaps Johannes Pieter or similar, perhaps it may help in future searches.

Amanda, They work miracles on this site.

Yes they do work miracles. A big thank you again to everyone.