Liverpool & South West Lancashire FHS - Forum

Can anyone help fill in gaps in the life of my 3xGG JOSEPH NEILE (occ.NEIL). He was born about 1814 and an 1841 Census entry (which I "think" is him) has him in Bilston, with a birthplace of Leicester. He was a Tailor and at some point moved to Liverpool, where he married ALICE BURNS (1810-74) in 1843 ("Ancestry" deciphered his name as Heil! Address for both bride & groom was Hodson Street.
Then nothing....until the 1871 Census sees him in Birkenhead, where he eventually died in the Workhouse in 1883 (as Niele).
I know some Parish Registers are missing from 1851, 61 & 81 Census returns, but despite all efforts, I've not found him on any of them. Where was he on those occasions?
Any assistance would be much appreciated.
Thank you.

Hi and welcome,

I know many eyes have looked at this and hopefully many more on here will offer help. It doesn't seem possible a family could be missed off 2 census and Joseph a third and yet it appears they have.

I came across your tree and hopefully I can add a couple of things you may not have. I know you have Joseph's death certificate, is there anything on there that's not Birkenhead Union related?
Wirral Archives will likely have the admission records and perhaps information might be held in them, Address, etc, an email to them when peacetime returns.

Joseph was buried, 16 July,1883, Bebington cemetery, image below.

I also note you have Alice's death certificate, 37 White St, Birkenhead, Who registered the death?

Alice Neil, buried, 28 Feb, 1874, 16 White St, Birkenhead Cemetery (Flaybrick), Roman Catholic Section. Wife of Tho's ? image below.

Welcome to the forum and I hope we may be able to find some results for you. We await your answers to Bertieone's questions, what a shame they are in different cemeteries, who registered Alice's death?

Hi & thank you so much Bertieone & Mary for your efforts, it is much appreciated.
There is nothing non Workhouse related on Joseph's DC. His death was registered by the Master and just says Tailor, Birkenhead.
Now, Alice's death was registered by a Jane Neil of 23 White Street....of whom I know nothing about. As far as I was aware, Joseph & Alice only had the one child....William...who later achieved considerable fame as Cyrus William Neile, with the Burgess & Moore Minstrels.
Anyway....at the time of her death Alice was living at 37 White Street and I see the Burial Index you found Bertieone has an address of 16 White Street and a husband called Thomas. Could these be errors, or is this a different Alice? Or is there a community of Neil's living in Birkenhead of which I was unaware. I can vaguely recall my only living Aunt (just turned 97) saying that there were Neil's over the water in Birkenhead.
Intriguing!
p.s. Coincidentally both Joseph & Alice died of bronchitis.

We'll have to look in to it further, the only death registered was this,

Deaths Mar 1874

NEIL
Alice
64
Birkenhead
8a
327

The death certificate and the burial has to be the same person, considering there was only one death registered.

37 White Street, is that in the "When and where died " column?

Yes it is Bertieone...37 White Street

Ok, Thank you,

The address in that column is not necessarily their home address. Alice could have been getting looked after and cared for by a relative or neighbour.

Her home address would have been 16 White Street, as per burial.

We know Alice Neile was alive and well in 1871, if you do a search between 1871 and 1910 for deaths, England and Wales, Alice, variations of Neil/Niel, etc.

The only suitable death is the 1874 that you have the cert for.

As for, Thomas? possible mistake.

I think to get into White St, 1873/74 you will have to rely on what might be available at Wirral Archives.

The nearest Jane Niel/Neil I could find, 1871, was at 198 Chester St with husband John and children. no way of knowing if they moved to White Street.

The map below, 198 Chester St was around the entrance to Leicester St, families did have a habit of moving regularly and staying in the area.

I thought I'd mention, Joseph Neild lodging in Egerton St, 1881.

Ticks a couple of boxes, born 1815 and a Widower, then lets us down, recorded as born in Birkenhead and a labourer.

Lets hope the lodging house keeper didn't forward the wrong information

It appears that young William Neile was busking in Ulverston in the mid-1860's.

This is from Soulby's Ulverston Advertiser and General Intelligencer of 15 October 1868. I am wondering if the "Neile" spelling was adopted after he was discovered by Herr Schottlaender. On his marriage record he is William Neill but was not able to sign his name.

"..the lad's parents were dependent on his street earnings" (Various newspapers, February/March 1868 re Schottlaender's youthful prodigy.

Thank you all again for your efforts in trying to resolve what is quite a mystery.
As I mentioned earlier, I have a memory of being told that Neile/Neil's lived in Birkenhead at one time, so this all fits.
However, I am certain Joseph was a Tailor and was described so in his DC....so that seems to preclude the Joseph Nield found in the Lodging House.
Young William was quite a hit with audiences, although why he chose to add Cyrus to his name, I've no idea.....early promotional marketing maybe? Interesting to read he sang outside Liverpool, before being whisked away to the bright lights of London, by M&B Minstrels. I have a few newspaper articles describing his performances and singing style, but am ashamed to say, his vocal skills have not been passed down to me
Thanks again.

Have you checked out the many links we have collected together about Theatrical Ancestors here viewtopic.php?f=14&t=15697

Not yet, Mary.....but will look now. Thank you.