Liverpool & South West Lancashire FHS - Forum

Morning all, I thought I'd see if anybody has any suggestions for me to help research a puzzle.

St Bride's Church 15 September 1844 marriage between
Daniel Thwaite, Full Age, Bachelor, Shoemaker, Lambert Street
Father William Thwaite, Shoemaker
and
Ann Porter, Full Age, Widow, West Dingle
Father William Magnay/McAgnay, Surgeon
Both signed their names
Witnesses Nicholas Bryden, Sarah Bryden

I'm posting the Certificate to see what you think of her father's name
https://imgur.com/TTI3P9X

Ann Thwaite died on 14 February 1848 and was buried in Necropolis Cemetery 17 February 1848, entry confirms her residence being Lambert Street, Age 32, died of dysentry.

This suggests she has a date of birth of approximately 1816

In 1851 at 28 Lambert Street, Liverpool
Daniel Thwaite Head Widr 36, Shoemaker, Keswick, Cumberland
Mary E Porter, Step daughter 17 Carlisle, Cumberland

and in 1861 Lambert Street, Liverpool
Daniel Thwaite, Head, Mar, 46 Shoemaker, Keswick, Cumberland
and Alexander McDonald, Lodger Unm 14 Shop Boy, Bootle, Lancashire

Daniel later married Margaret Conlon (nee Cabe) in 1853 St Nicholas and died in 1870.

Questions are -
What is Ann's maiden name? Magnay/McNay etc.? and where was she born.
Who is Mr Porter that Ann married and where did they marry
Where were Ann, daughter Mary E and possibly Mr Porter in 1841?
Can anybody find a baptism for Mary E approximately 1833 in the Carlisle area
What became of Mary E, the only clue just might be that she was in Malew IOM in 1881 but that's not a certainty.
Similarly where was Daniel Thwaite in 1841, he wasn't at home with his parents William and Margaret in Threlkeld, Keswick, but obviously wondering if he might give a clue to Ann's whereabouts.

There is a Thomas and Ann Porter with son Thomas and also a William and Ann Porter, also with a son Thomas in the 1841 census. We've more or less discounted these since Mary E is nowhere to be seen in the family and at least the second family I can attribute to other baptism and marriage.

Thanks for any help or suggestions

Not much so far and been looking!

1851 census has Mary E Sorter born about 1834 in Carlisle living with step father Daniel Thwaite. Looks like Lambert Street. Oops sorry, realised you already had that

Thanks for trying Johnny, yes I've spent quite a while searching but I'm grateful if anything can be turned up.

PS We have tied Lambert Street in to Daniel in censuses and Ann for the burial, so we know we have the right people, but it's earlier that's causing the problem.

Sorry, nothing to report

Well thank you both for trying, if anything occurs to you, please let me know. In the meantime, if you check the link to the image could you please give me your best guess as to her father's name.

Hi Mary,

I took it as Magnay, as it happens I wasn't stuck fast on it.

I checked on Family search every marriage between Porter and Ann, 1828/1844 and nothing came up what could be mistaken for similar.

There was a William Magnay in the Cumberland area, a tenant of Lord Carlise, probably a farmer, it went nowhere.

On the marriage cert and it depends who filled them in, he was certainly having a bad "M" day compared to other examples.

I also checked West Dingle, Ireland, though it probably refers to West Dingle Liverpool.

Oddly, William Magnay was Mayor of London around 1844.

It looks to me like Mcgnay, whether someone has spelt it phonetically I'm not sure. Definitely looks like someone has turned the second letter into a small 'c'.I have had a good look at all variations but cant find birth or marriage for Porter to Ann or birth of Mary E.

I cannot find out anything that you dont already have , and that's looking on Ancestry, FMP, Familysearch, LancsOPC etc.

Thank you all, you've come up with the same as me.

Bert that William you have I believe he died in Carlisle age 21, two years before our Ann would have been born, so I discounted him, despite the locations being good. I'm thinking of Mary E's birth place being Carlisle and Daniel's being Keswick, these seem too much of a coincidence to me and another reason for not believing in the mysterious "Mr Porter".

Wow!! thanks to all for your skill and expertise we very much appreciate your hard work.

Mary posted this on our behalf. We agree with all your suggestions but it is great to have the input of other minds to confirm.

As you said Mary we think that both Ann and Mary E were illegitimate.
As a last ditch attempt we are going to see if we have DNA matches to other descendants of the Magnay family

Thanks again

MC

Just to say: the last ditch attemp to see if we had a match confirmed your findings. I took the names from other Magnay trees and looked for matches and common ancestors and there were none - except for one family name which came up on both sides of our family tree! and led nowhere. We have found the DNA often confirms the research nicely. But it is new territory to us.
Many thanks for your hard work!
Pat

Thanks Pat, and just to let the crew know that PatM and Alleycat are part of the same family and both trying to research this line.