Liverpool & South West Lancashire FHS - Forum

Wonder can you help please. Getting myself tied up in knots. Im trying to find the marriage of William and Nellie to start with.......And the birth of their first son William. I was told Nellie Flynn died.....either from child birth Susannah’s in December 1906.......or sometime later.

Their father William J Churchill......rumour has it died sometime later and the children were put in a home. But I’m not sure...I found I think Elsie in 1911 in a home run by nuns in Everton......consistent with the family story. I have I think traced her to USA......once again confirmed by family.

What I have is :

Not sure of Parent William date of birth or death......not even sure if he died when the children were put in home ......a tree I started had him as 16 when he fathered his first son!!!

William (J) Churchill......born Liverpool possibly 1902 first born son.
He had son Fredrick William Churchill 1939 - 2014. He married Iris Vivienne Rusk

Thomas Churchill, 2nd son...... was born on 14 October 1906 in Liverpool, Lancashire, the son of Nellie Flynn and William Churchill - 1941 death Greece WW11 He married Hannah M Purcell. I found his baptism record which confirm William J Churchill and Nellie Flynn.....but that’s it.

Susannah Elsie Churchill 18 December death USA

Another possibility was I found 3 children....only Elsie was Ellen...in 1911, stated and as grandchildren .....but I can’t find a mother who married a Churchill and the grandparents were Nicholas !!!

Could I ask someone to please find William and Nellie for me.......what makes it harder is he may have been a comedian and travelled!!!!

Thank you

Marriages Jun Qtr 1906

CHURCHILL
William James, Flynn Ellen

W. Derby
8b
937

CHURCHILL
William J
FLYNN
Ellen
1906
West Derby, Register Office or Registrar Attended
Liverpool

Hi Bertie

Wow......1906....very near to Thomas birth.......but unwed for William ...wow

Thank you.....the plot thickens

Suex

Sue, I know you have it,

Name:
Thomas Churchill
Age:
0
Birth Date:
14 Oct 1906
Baptism Date:
28 Oct 1906
Baptism Place:
St Anne, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Father:
Gulielmi Jacobi Churchill
Mother:
Helenae Flynn

Yep Bertieone I do......I presumed they were married for William’s birth


Suex

The 1911 census, Nicholas family where the grandchildren are, child Mary Ann Nicholas, 1892, mmn, Condon.

Connected to this family,

1891, RG12 P2989 F48 page32, Elm Grove.

James Condon
61
Mary Condon
65
Eliza Condon, dau
34
Mary Condon gdau
14
Mary Condon gdau
15
William Churchill gson
5

CHURCHILL, WILLIAM JAMES
mmn CONDON
GRO Reference: 1885 S Quarter in ORMSKIRK Volume 08B Page 824

NICHOLAS
Thomas
CONDON
Elizabeth
1901
West Derby, Register Office or Registrar Attended
Liverpool

Name:
Ellen Churchill, 48 Paddington, same address as 1911, Nicholas.
Age:
27
Record Type:
Burial
Birth Date:
abt 1883
Death Date:
abt 1910
Burial Date:
18 Dec 1910
Burial Place:
Liverpool, Lancashire, England

Possible,

Widowed Barman in Wales, 1911.

https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/s ... sePUB=true

Bertie

I’m now totally confused.

I did find that death of who I thought was Nellie .

So Thomas Nicholas married Elizabeth Condon 1901

William James Churchill married .......Condon 1885.....There first son was William Churchill.

Sorry I’m lost

Suex

Sue,
1885 is the birth of William James Churchill, mothers maiden name, Condon.

I suspect he was born out of wedlock to Elizabeth Condon aged 34, 1891 census.

The 1901 census he is recorded as William J Nicholas, stepson to Thomas Nicholas, mother, Elizabeth Nicholas, nee Condon.

1911 census, Elizabeth Nicholas, nee Condon is the grandmother to the children of William James Churchill, born 1885, mmn, Condon

Bertie

Thank you.

Will start a new tree with this information...... I had him linked to a Music Hall Artiste and quite a well known one in those day.

Thank you so much

Suex

CHURCHILL, ELLEN
mother's maiden name, FLINN
GRO Reference: 1910 D Quarter in WEST DERBY Volume 08B Page 570

The above Ellen Churchill, died and buried, Ford Cemetery, 1915, address, 11 Vine Street.

Address of Thomas & Elizabeth Nicholas, 1920 Electoral Roll.

Morning Bertie

So she was never adopted or went to America.
Her mother Ellen Flynn/Flinn died 1910 and her daughter 1915
I think it’s a case of family tales maybe

Sue H wrote: ↑

15 Mar 2020 07:53

I think it’s a case of family tales maybe

So many of them aren't there, I never know whether to think they might be a cover up, something misremembered or maybe even a correct story attributed to the wrong person.

Sue,

We could do with sight of the 1906 marriage cert to find the status of William James Churchill, in case he was a widow.

The 1911 Nicholas census has William Churchill, grandson, born 1903, Manchester.

Also a possibility, perhaps Ellen Flynn brought William into the marriage,

A possible,
FLYNN, WILLIAM
- no mmn recorded
GRO Reference: 1903 M Quarter in PRESTWICH Volume 08D Page 399

Prestwich is about 3 mile from Manchester, perhaps close enough to have Manchester recorded as place of birth by grandparents?

Thank you Bertieone I will suggest that. From my own experiences you all sorted out.....not everything is that simple is it

Yes Mary cover ups are the main reason......don’t suppose they ever thought they’d be discovered