Liverpool & South West Lancashire FHS - Forum

Looking for a bit of information on my Great Grandmother if anyone can shed any light.
She was born Leah Maud Watts to John Watts and Jane George 1976 and was registered in Kirkdale.
We know she spent time in a children's home before marrying Robert Gardiner Bark from Greenock, Scotland and she moved with him there and that's where they settled and she died aged 76 in 1952 and her family remained in Scotland. She was also known as Lily.
She also appears on the 1881 census aged 5 with Rachel Donaghy and her two children Annie and William at 23 Pansy Street but just as a visitor. It appears Mr Donaghy was at sea. We don't know if this could have been some kind of foster placement or family or friends she may have stayed with. We also don't know if she was there one night or for a time.
I'd also be interested to find out more about the parents but all I can find of them is their names as her parents on her death certificate.
Any help appreciated.

Hi and welcome,

Connection to 1881 census,

Rachel George Watts married John Donaghy, 1880, Liverpool

Thank you for that. So it looks like Rachel could have been a relation (aunt perhaps) and John had had the children to his first wife.
Very interesting.

This is the GRO registration, do you have the birth certificate for further information, occupations, addresses, etc.?

I can't find a marriage for a John Watts and Jane George, it appears no other children were born to that combination in Liverpool.

I'm wondering if her name was Jane George Watts and her baby was born out of wedlock.

Wanting to avoid embarrassment when registering the child, she chose George as her maiden name and John Watts for the fathers name.

The baby would have the same surname.

Perhaps Jane is the sister of Rachel?

Unfortunately I haven't been able to find a birth certificate, just the birth record and her death certificate.
You could well be right in which case I should be looking for a Jane Watts but I imagine that would have been a common name. It would also explain why there seems to be no trace of a marriage or death certificate for them.

It does seem like the family were fragmented and I have found records for Rachel Watts in a poor house aged 13 then in service aged 18. I imagine she would have stayed there until marriage. As this seems to have been common at the time I wonder if Leah spent time in service as well before marrying but I've yet to find any record of that.

The only way to get a birth certificate in England & Wales is to purchase one, best place to do so,

https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/cert ... efault.asp

cheaper in PDF format, using the above GRO details I posted earlier.

Thanks, I think we will do that although if she wasn't entirely honest it might be difficult to trace any further.

If she was honest, it may allow us to move from one possibility to another, the other being, Leah and Rachel were sisters.
I know there's a big age gap but they wouldn't be the first siblings with such an age difference.

There's some records on Scotland's People I can't open and I don't trust the transcription on Ancestry.

Ann George Watts, born 1861, died 1861, much more information on certificates, as you know.

This transcription I don't trust and I think the original census form needs looking at. I think this could possibly be the family.

John Watte
Age:
45
Estimated birth year:
abt 1816
Relationship:
Head
Spouse's name :
Jane Watte
Gender:
Male
Where born:
England
Registration Number:
526
Registration district:
Lochgilphead
South Knapdale
Argyll
Address:
Campbellton Road Mkellars Land
Occupation:
Copper Miner
ED:
8
Household schedule number:
68
Line:
18
Roll:
CSSCT1861_71
John Watte 45 Bn England, Copper Miner.
Jane Watte 54 Bn England (age ?)
Rachel Watte 8 Bn England
Helen Watte 5 Bn England
James Martin 51

Great Bert! I'd been looking in England without any success, so went to bed and when I wake up I believe you've found the major clue.

You are right to question Jane's age, I would say 34 not 54.

Very kind using your credits, Mary.

Yes, definitely 34.

Rachel George Watts was consistent in all census she was born St Austell, Cornwall.

Tywardreath is about 5 miles from St Austell, I wonder?

Bertieone wrote: ↑

22 Jun 2019 11:43

Very kind using your credits, Mary.

I had a few that were nearly running out, so worth while using them.

That christening entry from familysearch Bert? no birth entry to match it though

Yes Mary and the following sprang to mind, also the introduction of fines and the responsibility of registration was on the parents shoulders.
Could be the reason we can only find Leah's reg.


"It has been estimated that in some parts of England up to 15% of births were not registered between 1837 and 1875. ... However, the law was changed again 1875 to allow a father of an illegitimate child to record his name on his child's birth certificate if he attended the register office with the mother".

I know, but I always live in hope, often under a different name, but in this case I've tried just Rachel in St Austell even spreading through Cornwall, without joy, none of the surnames listed ring bells.

Could only find the one Rachel myself in that area at that time.

Baptism,

That looks to be the one

This is all brilliant, thank you. Particularly intriguing as I lived in Lochgilphead for a short time and am visiting there this weekend. I’ve ordered Leah’s birth certificate so I will keep you updated.
Thanks again.