Liverpool & South West Lancashire FHS - Forum

I’ve been researching my Liverpool Martindale roots and have hit a bit of a brick wall. John Martindale (b. c1800) married Elizabeth Usher (also b. c1800) at St Peter’s in Liverpool in 1821. I’m trying to find who their parents were. There are many trees on Ancestry that claim John's father was Benjamin Martindale/Martindale and mother is Mary Roscoe. I haven’t seen any proof to back that up. Another possibility is father John Martindale, mother Jane Cowl/Cowle/Cowles. About ten years ago, I had been in contact with a Martindale researcher who I know is from my line who stated the parents were John and Jane. Does anyone have any suggestions for where I can go next? The banns state that John was a fisherman and one of the witnesses was Sarah Martindale.
Thanks in advance.

Hi and welcome,

Sorry I can't find any conclusive proof that supports any of the parents above.

It appears their first born was Mathias, 1823, I wonder if there's an overseas influence in that choice of name, apparently German or Dutch origins?

again not much help, I couldn't advance on it.

Hi and welcome to the forum. I also haven't been able to substantiate either suggestion, however will keep looking and come back to you if I do.

The person who is from the same line as me is on the very first page of this forum, talking about Sarah Fearn. I see by the colours she was a guest. And it was a post from almost ten years. I will keep digging. Thank you both for responding.

A) Lancashire OPC has 2 JOHN MARTINDALES born to BENJAMIN & MARY

1) Born 14 March 1792 Baptised 1April 1792 St Peter's Liverpool. He would appear to have died 27 May 1793 and been buried 29 May 1793 St James Toxteth.

2) Born 16 June 1794 Baptised 20 July 1794 St Peter's Liverpool. He also appears to have died 15 November 1797 and been buried 18 November 1797 St James Toxteth.

I think on this basis you might move Benjamin and Mary down the list of probable parents.

B) There are 2 other JOHN MARTINDALES baptised in the possibly relevant period.

1) Son of JOHN & JANE(nee COWL) born 24 October 1797 baptised 3 December 1797 St Nicholas Liverpool

2) Son of THOMAS & ANN born 21 January 1799 baptised 17 February 1799 Pitt Street Chapel Liverpool. NB Ancestry has a digital copy showing this to have been at Mount Pleasant Wesleyan Chapel.

C) A witness to the marriage in 1821 is SARAH MARTINDALE. I have not come across a suitable birth for a Sarah. Perhaps she is a sister in law and you need to check Martindale marriages.

Alex

Sarah may be the wife of Peter Martindale who married Sarah McCann at St Peter's in 1817.

When looking at this yesterday I noted another Mathias Martindale, plumber & glazier, who married Catherine Jordan in Liverpool in 1818, a possible double wedding - Thomas Penny Martindale, printer, married Ellen Walgreen on the same day at the same church. .

There was a Matthias Martindale born in Manchester in 1792, parents John & Mary.

Thomas Penny Martindale (Thomas Poney Martindill)
Was Mathias Martindale's brother, also born Manchester to John & Mary https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NVWH-B4L

Just throwing this into the mix. The handwriting is very difficult to read.

Still looking into John's parents

Kristi probably has this? but thoughts for the crew.

1841 census L.pool
Adress: Gildart? Court Rigby Street
Family all born L.pool

John Martindale c1800 occ: fisherman (says born c1781 on cover but image suggests c1800) has been altered by someone.
Elizth c 1800 (transcribed as Elvah on cover)
Mathias 1826 occ: plasterer? (cover says born 1796, transcribed as Martine)
William 1826 occ: fisherman (transcribed as Williams Martindale) (cover says born 1796)
Ellen c 1827 (cover says born c 1800 image says aged 14 therefore born c1827
Elizabeth 1829 (transcribed Elish)
John c1832
Ann 1835

Class H0107 Piece 555 Book 14

Baptism: 17 Aug 1823 St Peter, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Mathias Martindale - [Child] of John Martindale & Elizabeth
Abode: Rigby Street
Occupation: Fisherman
Baptised by: J. Pulford Curate
Register: Baptisms 1823 - 1825, Page 54, Entry 429
Source: LDS Film 1656418

Baptism: 14 Jun 1827 St Peter, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Ellen Martindale - [Child] of John Martindale & Elizabeth
Abode: Rigby Street
Occupation: Fisherman
Baptised by: Wheeler Milner Officiating Minister
Register: Baptisms 1826 - 1827, Page 274, Entry 2191
Source: LDS Film 1656419

Baptism: 10 Jan 1830 St Peter, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Elizabeth Martindale - [Child] of John Martindale & Elizabeth
Abode: Rigby St
Occupation: Boatman
Baptised by: Jona. Brooks M. A. Rector
Register: Baptisms 1829 - 1830, Page 232, Entry 1855
Source: LDS Film 93878

Baptism: 10 Jan 1830 St Peter, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
William Martindale - [Child] of John Martindale & Elizabeth
Abode: Rigby St
Occupation: Boatman
Baptised by: Jona. Brooks M. A. Rector
Register: Baptisms 1829 - 1830, Page 232, Entry 1854
Source: LDS Film 93878

Baptism: 5 Sep 1834 St Peter, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Ann Roberts Martindale - [Child] of John Martindale & Elizabeth
Abode: Rigby Street
Occupation: Fisherman
Baptised by: William Tyrer Off. Minister
Register: Baptisms 1834, Page 249, Entry 1988
Source: LDS Film 2045907

Baptism: 16 Sep 1836 St Peter, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Mary Jane Martindale - [Child] of John Martindale & Elizabeth
Abode: Rigby Street
Occupation: Fisherman
Baptised by: J. S. Bowstead Off Min
Register: Baptisms 1836 - 1837, Page 227, Entry 1811
Source: LDS Film 1656422

Baptism: 11 Feb 1839 St Peter, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Emma Martindale - [Child] of John Martindale & Elizabeth
Abode: Rigby St
Occupation: Boatman
Baptised by: Tho. Mac Gill Curate
Register: Baptisms 1839, Page 33, Entry 261
Source: LDS Film 1656423

Baptism: 25 Jul 1841 St Paul, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Peter Martindale - son of John Martindale & Elizabeth
Abode: Rigby Street
Occupation: Fisherman
Baptised by: J H Stafford Minister
Register: Baptisms 1828 - 1846, Page 118, Entry 4
Source: LDS Film 1656373

1851 census
address: 8 Worfield street
Class H0107 piece: 2179 Folio: 352 page: 42

John Martindale c 1800 occ: fisherman
Elizabeth c 1800 0cc: fishmonger
Ann c 1834 unmarried occ: house servant
Peter c1840 Liverpool was probably born after 1840 he's not on 1841 census occ: fisherman
Elizabeth 1829 (now married to a Henry Aird) daughter occ:fishmonger
Henry Aird c 1828 L.pool occ: fisherman
John Aird c 1851 L.pool g.son

Gray

Gray

The Census page is much clearer on FMP.

It looks like (and is transcribed by FMP) Gills Court, Rigby Street.

Thanks Alex69

The transcription on Anc is just chronic!

According to the OPC

John Martindale born to Thomas & Ann died 1800, unless they had another child name John. I cannot find another?



Burial: 7 Jan 1800 St Paul, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
John Martindale - son of Thomas Martindale & Ann
Died: 5 Jan 1800
Lived: Moorfields
Occupation: Slaterer

Gray

You are all really good. Thank you!

I have seen all those Rigby Street dates and names and am trying to find a connection between Rigby and Worfield. I know for sure that the Martindales on Worfield are my Martindales. The other iffy part of the Rigby Street family is the baptism record for William. He married Sarah Ellen Fearn and they also lived on Worfield Street. But the censuses show he was likely born around 1824. Maybe the family delayed the baptism? I will look at the other baptisms that I haven’t seen and see where they figure into future generations.

I just went through the info in the 1841, 1851, and 1861 censuses again to compare (in pen) the family members. I believe that the 1841 Rigby Street and the 1851 Worfield families are the same. There are other families on Worfield who married Martindales.
Edward Karran/Carran married Ellen Martindale of Rigby Street in 1847. Her father, John, was a fisherman. They are on Worfield in 1851.
Henry Aird (Henry Hird on banns) married Elizabeth Martindale of Rigby Street in 1851. Her father, John, was a fisherman. Not sure how that worked, since the census was taken in March and they married in November. In the 1851 census, they are on Worfield.

I think I just needed to see it from someone else’s eyes. Thanks again for your effort and help.

The trouble with census information (Addresses) it only records where a person was on the day/night of that census, Elizabeth could have been living in Rigby St when she married.

I’ve been doing some more researching on John, b. c1800.

We’ve established that John’s parents are not likely to be Benjamin and Mary.

I checked out the birth of John to John and Jane. That John, as verified by alex69, was born in 1797, Peter’s Lane, father shipwright, I believe. I found a burial for John Martindale of John Martindale, infant, father a Carpenter, Peter’s Lane in 1798. Same John? Would a shipwright be considered a carpenter?

When I looked at Thomas and Ann’s John, b. 1799, father a slater, there’s a death record for him in Jan, 1800 in Moorfield.

This is my brick wall! I’m appreciating the effort and knowledge that you folks, who are not related to me, are putting in to help.
Kristi

A shipwright was a carpenter or woodworker that built ships, at that time if a shipwright wasn't building ships, his carpentry skills could be used elsewhere in other industries that required woodworking skills.

A Shipwright was land based, Shipyards, Shipbuilding, Ship Repair.

Ships Carpenter, at sea.

Thanks, Bert.