Liverpool & South West Lancashire FHS - Forum

Hi,
I'm trying to figure out who the above Martha Parr is. I have a sneaking suspicion she may be Martha Wilcock, who married John Parr in 1858. However, I can't find Lawrence and Martha's marriage record on Ancestry and so I can't figure out whether she was a widow at the time of that marriage, or a spinster. Before I start applying for marriage certificates I'm wondering whether someone on this forum may have some insight.

In particular I'm trying to trace the parents of Margaret McDonnell, b 1873, who married a William Rice. I believe that Lawrence may be her father, but I'm not sure whether Martha is her mother. There's a birth record for a Margaret McDonald in 1873, with the mother's name of Wilcock. Maybe I'm putting two and two together to make five !!!

Thanks, Gordon

Catholic marriage, St Patrick's

St Patrick's

Bert, thank you so much !
So it looks as if Martha Parr was previously Martha Wilcock, and then she became Martha McDonald/McDonnell, although Margaret McDonald was born before her mother married Lawrence. Bit strange....
Regards, Gordon.

Gordon,

It appears Catherine was also born before the wedding,

MCDONNELL, CATHERINE mmn WILCOCK
GRO Reference: 1870 S Quarter in WEST DERBY AND TOXTETH PARK Volume 08B Page 280




are you aware of this child? who doesn't appear on the 81 census.

St Patrick's

Hi Bert,

Curiouser and curiouser...this family has me completely baffled.

Let me provide some context to my query. I did a DNA test and discovered a match with someone who is the grandson of Margaret McDonnell/McDonald(she married a William Rice in 1893). By triangulating the DNA results with known relatives it seemed that there was some connection between Margaret and the surname Parr (my g-g-grandmother was an Elizabeth Parr).

However, for that link to work, Margaret would have to be a blood descendant of John Parr, not Martha Wilcock, so I was wondering whether Margaret was the natural child of John Parr and Martha Wilcock, then John had died (but I can find no record of John's death) and Margaret had been adopted by Lawrence McDonnell after he married Martha. The baptism record for Catherine would seem to blow that theory out of the water !

By the way, I haven't yet established a firm connection between my Elizabeth Parr and John Parr, but that was going to be the next phase of my research once I'd got past the Margaret McDonnell mystery. It could be of course, that I'm barking up the wrong tree ! Also, I'm assuming that Martha Wilcock-Parr-McDonnell/McDonald is the same person, but I could be wrong.

I'll get in touch with Margaret's grandson to see if he knows anything, but I suspect not. A Liverpool family with lots of secrets ? Surely not....

Regards, Gordon.

Gordon,

Just having a nibble at it all,

I could only find 2 registered children for the John Parr, Martha Wilcock marriage,

Ann Jane Parr, 1859
Elizabeth Parr, 1862, both mmn, Wilcock,

May suggest John Parr died just before or close to the birth of the second daughter.

Catherine McDonnell, Bn 1870, married John Pritchard Holland, 1888, St Michaels.

A witness at that marriage was Ann Jane Callon, nee Parr, married John Callon, 1880, Liverpool.

1871 census,
RG10 P3798 F96 P57,

Samuel Robinson, 45, Liverpool
Elizabeth Robinson, 45, Liverpool
Elizabeth Parr, 9, Liverpool

Samuel Robinson married Elizabeth Parr, St Peter's, 1850.

Elizabeth Parr/Robinson father, John Parr, Sawyer.

same occupation as John Parr's ( Wilcock) father. Brother and Sister

Thanks Bert,

That's very helpful. I was aware of Anne Jane and Elizabeth Parr, but not the McDonnell child (Joseph ?) born in 1876. I'll go through my notes and see if I can establish a link with my Parr family, who were mainly coal carters and came from Childwall.

I still can't see any blood tie between the Parrs and Margaret McDonnell, but there's obviously a back story to the children being born and baptised as McDonnell/McDonald before Lawrence and Martha eventually get married, particularly since they're all Catholic ceremonies !

Regards, Gordon.

Oh !!!!!! I've just seen the light.

Ann Jane's sister Elizabeth, b 1862, is my g-grandmother. What completely threw me was that on Elizabeth's marriage certificate to John Scott in 1881, she gives her father's name as John Parr, team-driver (i.e. carter). On the baptism record for Ann Jane, John Parr is a bricklayer. However, when Ann Jane marries John Callon, her father is John Parr - a carter. Somehow he went from being a bricklayer to a carter - a somewhat unusual career change which completely threw me off the scent.

This now explains why the descendants of Martha Wilcock/Parr/McDonnell are blood relatives of mine.

Bert - thank you so much for your help. Without the DNA test and you, I would have continued on completely the wrong track in my research of the Parr family.

Regards, Gordon.

I can only say that DNA tests have a lot to answer for - wish I'd never bothered!