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Lawrence Thomas Forrester born 1915 Liverpool

Posted: 21 Feb 2018 10:58
by JoanB
Hello

I am hoping someone can help me with a puzzle regarding the following people:

Catherine Dowling (b 1888) married James Lockley Forrester (b 1888) on 19th July 1909 at St Mary's, Highfield Street, Liverpool. Catherine and James went on to have 11 children and the child I am particularly interested in is Lawrence Thomas Forrester born 1916.

I thought I had information on Lawrence marrying an Ellen Meehan in 1937 and them having a child in 1938, I have deliberately omitted the child's name in case he is still alive and it's not permitted to refer to living people here. Both the marriage to Ellen and the birth of the child are recorded in the Civil Registration Marriage Index and Civil Birth Index respectively but I can't find any other records.

When I come to look up these people on the 1939 register, things get very strange. If this is the correct people, Forrester is mis-spelled (I'm sure we've all seen that many times on the register) but Ellen is described as a Ellen Spencer, who later became Skelton. There is one person who is hidden, who could be the child but there is also another person described as Kathleen Spencer born 16th September 1939. The address given on the 1939 register is 34 Sumner Street, Liverpool.

I know Lawrence was killed in the blitz on 3rd May 1941 so it’s perfectly possibly that Ellen may have remarried after his death but why would she be described as Spencer so I thought I must have the wrong people, except I can’t find any trace of Ellen Spencer or Kathleen; although there are 2 burials recorded for a Kathleen Forrester in 1942 of children born in 1939, I can’t find a birth for either of them.

The death address for Lawrence in 1941 of 13 Chancel Street, Liverpool does not match the 1939 register but obviously the family may have moved in those 2 years. I have checked the Chancel Street address and there is a Stanley family living there in 1939.

I would be very grateful if anyone has the time to have a look at this information because I feel like I am going around in circles and just can't make sense of it. Any help or advice would be very gratefully received.

Best wishes
Joan

Re: Lawrence Thomas Forrester born 1915 Liverpool

Posted: 21 Feb 2018 11:22
by retiringtype
If you look at the image of the 1939 register page you will see that the names are recorded initially as Lawrence Forrester (mistranscribed as Forrister) and Ellen (surname ditto), plus the two children.

When Ellen remarried to Albert Skelton in 1945, the Skelton name was added on Ellen's line, overwriting the ditto mark.

The Spencer name would have been added after another marriage (there's an Ellen Skelton/ William I Spencer marriage in 1959).

Kathleen Forrester (mmn Meehan) was born in Blackpool RD (1939, 3Q 8e 865).

There is only one Kathleen Forrester death in 1942. The two burial records on Ancestry are for the same person (both Ford Cemetery, 4 December).

Re: Lawrence Thomas Forrester born 1915 Liverpool

Posted: 21 Feb 2018 11:44
by JoanB
retiringtype wrote:In the 1939 register the names are recorded initially as Lawrence Forrester (mistranscribed as Forrister) and Ellen (surname ditto), plus the two children.

When Ellen remarried to Albert Skelton in 1945, the Skelton name was added on Ellen's line, overwriting the ditto mark.

The Spencer name would have been added after another marriage (there's an Ellen Skelton/ William I Spencer marriage in 1959).

Kathleen Forrester (mmn Meehan) was born in Blackpool RD (1939, 3Q 8e 865).

There is only one Kathleen Forrester death in 1942. The two burial records on Ancestry are for the same person (both Ford Cemetery, 4 December).
Thank you so much for your help. I really couldn't see that ditto mark but that makes perfect sense to me. So now all I need to do is work out why Lawrence and Ellen were in Blackpool in 1939 and where Ellen and their son went after Lawrence was killed and Kathleen died.

Thank you again

Joan

Re: Lawrence Thomas Forrester born 1915 Liverpool

Posted: 21 Feb 2018 12:42
by JoanB
Sorry one more question.

If that's the incorrect Kathleen who died in 1939 and her mother married Skelton in 1945 then Spencer in 1959, why would Kathleen's name be changed to Spencer on the register but not mention Skelton?

Thanks very much
Joan

Re: Lawrence Thomas Forrester born 1915 Liverpool

Posted: 21 Feb 2018 13:25
by retiringtype
why would Kathleen's name be changed to Spencer on the register but not mention Skelton?
Kathleen's name hasn't been changed on the register. It is Forrester (per the ditto mark), Kathleen.

Re: Lawrence Thomas Forrester born 1915 Liverpool

Posted: 21 Feb 2018 13:28
by JoanB
retiringtype wrote:
why would Kathleen's name be changed to Spencer on the register but not mention Skelton?
Kathleen's name hasn't been changed on the register. It is Forrester (per the ditto mark), Kathleen.
Apologies, it must just be the transcription again that is incorrect as that has Kathleen's name as Spencer.

Thank you again for your help, it is greatly appreciated.

Best wishes
Joan

Re: Lawrence Thomas Forrester born 1915 Liverpool

Posted: 21 Feb 2018 13:34
by retiringtype
Never trust a transcription!

Re: Lawrence Thomas Forrester born 1915 Liverpool

Posted: 21 Feb 2018 15:08
by MaryA
Hi and welcome to the forum, Retiringtype seems to have very successfully resolved your query and I will just reiterate what he put above.
retiringtype wrote:Never trust a transcription!
I believe on a couple of occasions you have relied on transcriptions, which are only somebody else's idea of what is on the page, always make up your own mind by looking at the original yourself.

Re: Lawrence Thomas Forrester born 1915 Liverpool

Posted: 22 Feb 2018 10:39
by JoanB
MaryA wrote:Hi and welcome to the forum, Retiringtype seems to have very successfully resolved your query and I will just reiterate what he put above.
retiringtype wrote:Never trust a transcription!
I believe on a couple of occasions you have relied on transcriptions, which are only somebody else's idea of what is on the page, always make up your own mind by looking at the original yourself.
Thank you Mary, I managed to get here in the end and got a fantastic response to my query too :)