Liverpool & South West Lancashire FHS - Forum

Hello
I'm looking for anyone who may have lived/known somebody who lived at 109 Rosevale, Everton in 1936 who may have any information on my father William Allan Christian who may have lived here. All I have to go on is his army records which stated this as his address and his mother Elizabeth Allan. I know most of all his life after 1936 from his records until his death in 1999 but the first 20 years are a mystery.

Thanks in hope

Tarquin

Hi and welcome to the forum. Unfortunately the 1938 Trade/Street directory doesn't list Number 109 and apart from the 1939 Register is the most likely place to trace a family.

If you don't have him in the above Register, please let us know his approximate date of birth.

He was born 20/09/1916

Unfortunately I don't see an entry for him in the 1939 Register, but he wasn't living at 109 Rose Vale as there were an Edward and Eliza Ann Aspinall at that time.

Having had sight of your tree on Ancestry, I notice you have attached William Christian as son to parents John Edward Christian/Catherine Christian, nee, Dowell.

John Edward and Catherine were married in 1906, there doesn't appear to be a birth registration for a William Christian with a mothers maiden name of, Dowell. There doesn't appear to be any children to the Christian/Dowell combination, checked to 1920.

Entering his mothers name as, Elizabeth Allan, (Army Records)

Do you know if William was brought up by/Adopted by the Christian's?

MaryA wrote:Unfortunately I don't see an entry for him in the 1939 Register, but he wasn't living at 109 Rose Vale as there were an Edward and Eliza Ann Aspinall at that time.

If he was in the army prior to the 39 Register, he won't be on it.

When did he join up?

Do you have a copy of his marriage certificate? and what are his fathers details?.

Thanks for all the responses to my enquiry

Here's a brief history of William Allan Christian

Enlisted to RAOC 08/05/1936
Army Paperwork says served at Home from 08/05/1936-19/01/1938

with Mother named as Elizabeth Allan Address 109 Rosevale, Everton, Liverpool with a date of 08/05/1936 , 26/05/1936 with Liverpool Victoria membership no ( called LV no trace found ) and another page with 27/06/1936 on it

then posted to Egypt 20/01/1938 - 05/07/1941
then overseas till 22/04/1944
India 09/03/1945-17/04/1946

Married on 28th April 1946 to Edna Norris Certificate says John Edward Christian H.M.Forces ( unable to trace his service records yet ) living at 8 Wykeham Street Liverpool 4 ( Married in Ilford )

Around 1951 another army paper says alt Next of Kin is Mrs C Christian, 8 Wykeham Street Liverpool 4
and again around 1952 alt Next of Kin is Mrs C Christian, 8 Wykeham Street Liverpool 4

1946-1949 possibly in UK still army
Far East 09/08/1949 - 28/01/1953
Korea 16/03/1954 - 20/04/1955
Singapore 21/04/1955 - 17/05/1957
1957 Uk left army 1960

So the interesting parts are his first 20 years as there is no records I have yet found and the change of mother to next of kin. I though adoption but he was 20 years old at the time of Elizabeth Allan so ??

John Edward Christian married Catherine Dowell in 1906
William was born 1916

I'm currently trying to see in Catherine dDowell's side can give me any further clues

Thanks

Tarquin

The change of next of kin may suggest Elizabeth Allan died between 1936 & 1951.

It is possible John Edward Christian was his father and Elizabeth Allan his mother, no need to expand on that. Lack of birth registration might be because of a birth outside of wedlock.

I checked the 1935/36 Voters register today for 109, Rose Vale, Everton and recorded at that address is Edward Aspinall and Eliza Ann Aspinall. Are these related to William?

Just located a marriage for:-

Surname First name(s) Spouse District Vol Page
Marriages Mar 1922 (>99%)
ALLEN Eliza A Aspinall W Derby 8b 340
Aspinall Edward Allen W.Derby 8b 340

Lancashire BMD

Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1922
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
ALLEN Eliza A ASPINALL Edward Everton, Christ Church Liverpool 2094WD/6/176

Need to check the marriage at Christ Church to see what is recorded.

MaryA wrote:Unfortunately I don't see an entry for him in the 1939 Register, but he wasn't living at 109 Rose Vale as there were an Edward and Eliza Ann Aspinall at that time.

Mary,
What were their ages, please?

could this death account for the change of Next of Kin?
Why not wife nominated as Next of Kin?

Eliza A Aspinall
Age
65
Birth Date:
abt 1877
Jun 1942
Liverpool North
Volume:
8b
Page:
544

Doh! I should have checked that marriage, seems so obvious now doesn't it.

109 Rose Vale
Edward Aspinall 6/9/1879 Stevedore
Eliza Ann Aspinall 31/5/1877 Unpaid domestic duties.

Thank you, Mary

While at Liverpool today, I quickly looked up the marriage of Edward Aspinall and Eliza Ann Allen.

Christ Church, Great Homer Street

25th January 1922

Edward Aspinall-43yrs-Dock Labourer-Widower-109, Rose Vale-Robert Aspinall (Dec)-Carter

Eliza Ann Allen-43yrs-Widow-90, Upper Potter Street-David Jones (Deceased)-Miller

Witnesses:- R. Savage-E. Hillon.

I searched for a marriage between a Allen and Eliza Ann Jones and I located this marriage:-

St. Ambrose, Everton

13th December 1908

Charles Allen-32yrs-Bachelor-Sailor-44, China Street-Charles Allen-Boilermaker

Eliza Ann Jones-30yrs-Spinster-44, China Street-David Jones-Miller (Deceased)

Witnesses:-Robert Henry Taylor-Edith Smith

On looking for a birth registration for a William Allen with a mothers maiden name Jones I located the following:-

September Qtr 1916

Allen (Jones) William Liverpool 8b (see Dec Qtr 1921)

The above is recorded at the bottom in handwriting.

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/ ... PUBJs=true

I looked up births for Decemeber Qtr 1921 and we have the following

December Qtr 1921

Allen (Jones) William Liverpool 8b 206

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/ ... PUBJs=true

William's birth was either not registered hence the Dec Qtr 1921 registration or Eliza Ann Allen adopted him?

What I suggest you do is apply for the birth certificate for William Allen registered Dec Qtr 1921 stating his date of birth and mother Eliza Ann Allen (nee Jones)

Hope this helps.

So what is it we're thinking ? Eliza is Elizabeth ? Born out of wedlock with John Edward as Father ? Then william moved on with his father and Catherine ?

Hope the GRO find a certificate of Williams birth as it could explain things

I don't know where the Christian surname comes into the mix. I would try that birth registration, put down his DOB and mother Eliza Ann Allen. Eliza/Elizabeth same to me. Note the address on the marriage in 1922, 109, Rose Vale, Everton. Same as on his Army papers. You can apply for the certificate from Liverpool Registry Office and if the details don't marry you get your money back. Do you live in Liverpool?.

Well done Katie,

The 1911 census has a Eliza Allen recorded in the Walton on the Hill workhouse, 32, married, 1 child born and living, also, Lily Allen, aged 1.

Lily Allen, Dec Qtr, West Derby, 1909, 8b 291, MMn, Jones.

There doesn't appear to be a suitable death for a Charles Allen between 1908/1922, Liverpool/West Derby.

Worth checking, Death at Sea, C Allen, 1910?

Do you think this is him Bertie 1911

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/ ... PUBJs=true