Liverpool & South West Lancashire FHS - Forum

yipee am in . Thank you Mary.

Ok Friends you may want to make a cuppa before starting to read this saga.
During my family research in 1966 and till today, I have been trying to find information on my G/G/G/ grandfather Peter Kelly, who came out of Ireland possibly 1830/40's, His son's marriage cert in 1844 Liverpool states Peter was a Superintendant of the West of England Fire Engine, address 6 Henry street, Liverpool. I have written over the years to various establishments concerning the W.O.E Engine, none have come back with any results, Commercial Union stated all records lost in fire. A gentleman sent me a cutting from Lloyds weekly London newspaper 1845, which states my G/G/G grandfather being in attendance as a Superintendant at a fire in Liverpool. But Death , Birth and Marriage of his children all give his address as 6 Henry street, yet he is not on census.
I thought i had cracked it when i sent for Peter's youngest daughter's birth cert which reads:-
Martha Kelly (B) 1846, Bpt St George's, Hulme, Manchester, father Peter Kelly Mother Eliza Charlton.
Now this is where i thought "Got ya".
It went onto read:- Address 42 Hargreaves Street, Hulme. Peter - Merchantile Clerk.
Late (Charlton m @ Newbridge, Kildare, 1823.
1823 was when my G/G grandfather James was born, again whenever James shows up on Liverpool census it only states Ire never a County.
I have e mailed Kildare and other places trying for a marriage certificate for Peter and Eliza only to be told it was a Civil marriage and i would have to write to the priest, I have no knowledge of a church to write to.
Now for my question. Has anyone got any suggestions or know of any other avenue i can go down to obtain a marriage cert for Peter & Eliza, This certificate may give me a County he came out of in Ireland.
Sorry to be so long winded but i had to paint a picture. cheers Carol

The 1843 Gore's Directory lists Peter Kelly as a police officer, 6 Henry Street

I thought this seemed familiar. There's a previous thread on this Kelly family https://www.liverpool-genealogy.org.uk/ ... =2&t=12035


You can browse the Newbridge parish registers online https://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0721

Hi Carol, glad you got in ok at last.

I notice the earlier post was also by you, quite a number of years ago, it'll need a thorough re-read before I could make any suggestions, meantime you could see if this is a place you have already searched, also the Fire Brigade Museum at Bridle Road in Bootle has some records.

Hi, yes I have been like I said, trying for years without any luck, I have replies from all over with same old thing, hence why my search is still on-going.
I have been to Bridle Road and spoke to a few of the crew shown them what i have and they promised to do some digging for me, that was about 6 years ago, I have never heard anything from them.
I also went to the Fire Station in town.
What seems strange to me is this, If the West of England fire engine was used so much in Liverpool, why are there no records, I have researched this in Records Office at the Maritime museum also, I was able to get the print of the W.O.E engine standing outside 6 Henry street from the said museum, but alas no records or anything else.
Thank you. Carol

Sorry if I'm repeating what you already know, as I understand it, it was West of England Fire and Life Insurance Company, they provided the fire engine to be run by the Police. Apparently Birkenhead was only the other place on Merseyside to have a Police run Fire Engine provided by an insurance company. A connection why Peter Kelly, a Policeman at Henry Street in the directory.

https://heritage.aviva.com/our-history/ ... e-company/

Hi Retiring. Peter is also listed as being a Book keeper, Solicitor, Merchantile Clerk. but never telling me where in Ireland they came from. Thanks

Hi Bertieone. Yes your quite right the W.O.E was connected to Commercial Union, when i contacted them their answer was all records destroyed in a fire. i never knew though that he was a policeman connected to W.O.E. Thanks Carol

I haven't absorbed all this, but a few thoughts:

1. Didn't civil registration - of all non-R.C. marriages - only start about 1845? R.C. marriage registration started in 1864? Did the authorities say that there was no civil registration? That would make sense if he married before 1845. They would advise you to try the church which started registration earlier.

2. I think the R.C. Church in one county - Wexford? - ignored the authorities and registered very early. Most, from what I've seen, didn't start until the late 1820's/early 1830s. If he married in the early 1820s, very likely there is no record.

3. You can search for Roman Catholic Charltons on the Irish Census of 1901 to get a feel for where they might have come from. I'm sure Kelly would be hopeless, but there were only 24 R.C. Charltons in the whole of Ireland and that included a couple of large families. You could write to the church authorities in the few relevant parishes.

4. Try Carlton as well. There are even less of those.

"West of England" tends to make me think more of a little further north as we relate our own area of the West Derby Hundred as being south west Lancashire. I wonder if either Preston or even Barrow may have any mention of the fire engine in their records, I know you will probably all shout me down for thinking that because of the connection with Liverpool, but I never think the cost of a phone call to ask a question is a waste of money, especially with Bridle Road having such a wide variety of fire engines at their premises, seems strange they have no idea about it.

Since your last messages on this forum, research in Ireland has become much more available online than it used to be, following some of luxor's suggestions, perhaps some of our collection of links might he of help. https://www.liverpool-genealogy.org.uk/ ... 14&t=13912
Particularly scroll down to this post which we try our best to keep up to date and in fact give to some of our visitors at the Help Desk https://www.liverpool-genealogy.org.uk/ ... 12#p116895
The top link https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/en/ being one of the best for parish records in Ireland, as well as, I believe, comprehensive for civil registrations.

West of England in this context refers to the Insurance company founded in 1807 in Devon Cornwall Somerset and Dorset.

Thank you Luxor,I will try what you suggested. Kildare and a couple of other places i rang told me there would be no record to try and find the church. I am in the process of emailing a Rev who is over 3 churches around Kildare, fingers crossed. Thanks Carol

alex69. Thanks for that. carol

MaryA. Thank you i will ring Preston and Barrow it is worth a try. I have been on most Irish sites without any luck, but God loves a tryer because someone, somewhere must have information stashed away, so i will keep on. when i went to Dublin Record Office the lady who funnily enough was a Kelly, told me to concentrate on his children , I have for the past 22 yrs and still can't put a County to Peter.
Thank you. Carol

Bertieone. Thanks for that heritage. aviva site it has opened up other avenues. I have some information on fire marks and some history of W.O.E but contacting these may prove useful. Cheer Carol