Family History Help MCMAHON/CARBERRY

[rossiboy81]

Good afternoon all.

Im hoping someone may be able to help me discover some details about my grandfathers history as various searches and weeks of scouring ancestery/find my past etc have come to no avail.

So my grandfather was born in Liverpool in April 1921. PATRICK MCMAHON

He finished his life on the south coast dying in 2003. Where he had a large family who are all sotonians.

(Southampton)

He was a docky by trade but during his earlier years was is the merchant Navy. and finished his days as a docky on the south coast.

He married my nan (Helen anne rose mcmahon) nee giffard.

I new my grandfather but as always the questions I maybe want to know now I did not think of asking as a young teenager.

Things I do know are that his Mother was a Carberry in maiden name according to his birth record. We believe her first name was Mary.

His father was also Patrick McMahon who dies in Southampton in 1963!!!??

I believe the may have originated in the Everton area but cannot be sure.

Some records of No. 3 Stitt street exist on his navy paperwork.

I find it strange that he as no extended family up there in the North west but supposedbly a single child.

One of my aunties suggested he may have had a cousin. Very thin info I know.

Now we did find some cencus info in 1911 of a family which lots of names matched up but he wasnt born till 1921.

Any info or help would be appreciated!!!!

Regards

Ross

[Blue70]

Hi

Welcome to the forum. He had a sister who died while she was still a baby:-

Birth Index

Name: MCMAHON Mary J
Mother's name: Carberry
District: Liverpool
Quarter: Apr/May/Jun
Year: 1923
Volume: 8b
Page: 170

Death Index

Name: McMAHON Mary J
Age: 0
District: Liverpool
Quarter: Oct/Nov/Dec
Year: 1923
Volume: 8b
Page: 106



Blue

[Blue70]

Does Falkner Street Liverpool (the street is currently featured in the TV series 'A House Through Time') ring any bells? The Patrick McMahon who died in 1963 is a good match for Patrick McMahon living at 127 Falkner street in 1938/39. Other occupant: Mary McMahon.


Blue

[MaryA]

Hi, welcome to the forum.

The dates of birth given in 1939 are Patrick 22/8/89 and Mary 31/5/96.

There is only one Patrick born +/- 2 years of that date in the :Liverpool area was born 9 Nov 1891, now often even when they didn't know their exact dob even just one part of it is usually right, so I'm suspecting this is not him.

As there is no marriage found in England either, could it be that they originated from Ireland?

We have collected quite a number of links to sites useful for Irish research, some of them might be of help. https://www.liverpool-genealogy.org.uk/ ... 14&t=13912

[rossiboy81]

Wow.

Thanks for the speedy responses guys.

I have heard from an aunt that he had a sister who dies whilst a baby but never had any facts to back it up.

How did you know this blue?

Also Mary thanks for the links.

I now have some links to work from now.

Regards

Ross

[Blue70]

Wow.

Thanks for the speedy responses guys.

I have heard from an aunt that he had a sister who dies whilst a baby but never had any facts to back it up.

How did you know this blue?

Also Mary thanks for the links.

I now have some links to work from now.

Regards

Ross

You can do a free birth index search on Free BMD for any children born with the surname McMahon with a mother with the surname Carberry. After finding Mary I did a death index search:-

https://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl


You use the index details to order birth, marriage and death certificates from the GRO:-

http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certi ... efault.asp


Blue

[rossiboy81]

Wow.

Thanks for the speedy responses guys.

I have heard from an aunt that he had a sister who dies whilst a baby but never had any facts to back it up.

How did you know this blue?

Also Mary thanks for the links.

I now have some links to work from now.

Regards

Ross

You can do a free birth index search on Free BMD for any children born with the surname McMahon with a mother with the surname Carberry. After finding Mary I did a death index search:-

https://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl


You use the index details to order birth, marriage and death certificates from the GRO:-

http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certi ... efault.asp


Blue

Thats brill mate. cheers.

Just need to find which one of the Mary Carberry is his mother. there seems to be loads at the time in Liverpool.

Any tips to narrow it down?

Or is it just a keep going job. carberry must be a big name around the city>>> loads of them

Anyway thanks for your help guys.

Ross

[Blue70]

You should get Patrick's birth certificate to make sure you have his parents' names correct and to see where the family was living at the time. I'm struggling to find matches in the Liverpool records so like Mary A I'm wondering if they came to Liverpool after 1911 from Ireland or somewhere else with a large Irish community. Here is Patrick's birth index:-

Name: McMahon Patrick
Mother's name: Carberry
District: Liverpool
Quarter: Apr/May/Jun
Year: 1921
Volume: 8b
Page: 157

Sources for possible matches of the father, Patrick McMahon [c1889-1963] as follows:-

1938 - Kelly's Directory of Liverpool, Patrick McMahon at 127 Falkner Street
1939 - 1939 Register, Patrick McMahon (dock labourer) & Mary McMahon at 127 Falkner Street


Blue

[rossiboy81]

Thanks guys. So this evening I ordered my grandfather BC so will see what comes from that.

Thanks for the help so far.

I had a quick nosey on the Irish site. Maybe a bit harder to track down but I'm guessing you've both been correct so far, as the only thing linking the parents to the area is the house in Falkner Road in 1939.

Its going to be a long journey.lol

Regards Ross

[luxor]

There's nothing obvious on irishgenealogy. You would expect to find the marriage registration there if it happened in Ireland. It might be worth checking the Scotland's People site.

[Blue70]

The birth dates don't match up to any Irish births it's quite frustrating sometimes one out of a couple might have a different date and the other one will be spot on but there are no perfect matches at all for the couple at 127 Falkner Street in 1938/39. A couple of births in the same district of Dublin stand out as being of interest but they're not close enough as matches. You may have to wait for the release of the 1921 census to see the places of birth of your Patrick and Mary to make progress with certainty. Some interesting but unlikely Irish births:-

Patrick Mahon born 15th August 1889 (1939 Register says 22nd August 1889) at 6 Cottage Place Dublin (South Dublin District no 4) to Thomas McMahon, labourer and Mary McCarthy, birth registered on 24th September 1889.

Mary Carberry born 6th May 1895 (1939 Register says 31st May 1896) at The Lock Hospital Dublin (South Dublin District no 4) to Mary Carberry, birth registered on 10th June 1895.



Blue

[rossiboy81]

Cheers Blue,

Yeah I may have to hold out for the census to be accurate.

Im new to the family history,

The family keep telling me 3 stitt street.

I find it odd that they only had the 2 children.....but who knows.

Not a lot to go on.....As its not even there anymore..

I'm awaiting birth certs in the post so will keep you posted.

Regards

Ross

The birth dates don't match up to any Irish births it's quite frustrating sometimes one out of a couple might have a different date and the other one will be spot on but there are no perfect matches at all for the couple at 127 Falkner Street in 1938/39. A couple of births in the same district of Dublin stand out as being of interest but they're not close enough as matches. You may have to wait for the release of the 1921 census to see the places of birth of your Patrick and Mary to make progress with certainty. Some interesting but unlikely Irish births:-

Patrick Mahon born 15th August 1889 (1939 Register says 22nd August 1889) at 6 Cottage Place Dublin (South Dublin District no 4) to Thomas McMahon, labourer and Mary McCarthy, birth registered on 24th September 1889.

Mary Carberry born 6th May 1895 (1939 Register says 31st May 1896) at The Lock Hospital Dublin (South Dublin District no 4) to Mary Carberry, birth registered on 10th June 1895.



Blue

[MaryA]

The family keep telling me 3 stitt street.

That could still be very helpful if you have an approximate date as we could check trade/street directories.

[rossiboy81]

Good Evening all.

Back again loaded with some ammo......he says.

my granddads details are all correct.

his dad is listed on the BC as Patrick McMahon and his mother is Mary McMahon formerly carberry.

The only extra info attached is his father was a sugar labourer at springfield????

Mothers address is 144a Brownlow hill.

This is tough work..

Ross

[Katie]

144a, Brownlow Hill was the address of Liverpool Workhouse Infirmary. We have a thread on here about 144a, Brownlow Hill.

https://www.liverpool-genealogy.org.uk/ ... =2&t=15974

[retiringtype]

Patrick McMahon born 15th August 1889 (1939 Register says 22nd August 1889) at 6 Cottage Place Dublin (South Dublin District no 4) to Thomas McMahon, labourer and Mary McCarthy, birth registered on 24th September 1889.

The corresponding catholic register (Western Row, Dublin) gives his date of birth as 22 August.

I am wondering if the civil registrar has accidentally transposed the birthdates of entries 251 and 252 on the register.

[Blue70]

Patrick McMahon born 15th August 1889 (1939 Register says 22nd August 1889) at 6 Cottage Place Dublin (South Dublin District no 4) to Thomas McMahon, labourer and Mary McCarthy, birth registered on 24th September 1889.

The corresponding catholic register (Western Row, Dublin) gives his date of birth as 22 August.

I am wondering if the civil registrar has accidentally transposed the birthdates of entries 251 and 252 on the register.

Good spot. RC baptisms are usually more reliable date-wise than civil birth records so I think you are right the child from 6 Cottage Place is the Patrick McMahon of 127 Falkner Street here is a link to that baptism from St Andrew's RC, Westland Row, Dublin:-

https://registers.nli.ie/pages/vtls000633503_043


Church information:-

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_Andrew ... ow,_Dublin


Link to the birth record with the wrong date of birth:-

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/ ... 915543.pdf


Blue

[Blue70]

Good Evening all.

Back again loaded with some ammo......he says.

my granddads details are all correct.

his dad is listed on the BC as Patrick McMahon and his mother is Mary McMahon formerly carberry.

The only extra info attached is his father was a sugar labourer at springfield????

Mothers address is 144a Brownlow hill.

This is tough work..

Ross

This is a useful resource for sugar labourers no mention of Patrick though but you could contact the site owner and get Patrick added to the database:-

http://www.mawer.clara.net/intro.html


'Springfield Street' was between Christian Street and St Anne Street while 'Springfield' was between St Anne Street and Soho Street. Not far from Stitt Street:-

c1900s




This 1920s map shows Springfield Street, Springfield and Stitt Street. Stitt Street is near to Shaw Street on the right side of the map:-

http://maps.nls.uk//view/101103926#zoom ... &layers=BT



Blue

[rossiboy81]

Thanks so much for you're help.

This is really cool.

Shed some light on a family who nothing about their roots.

Seriously I'm truly thank full for help so far.

Being honest my grandparents generation are a pain ti find as the are mainly 1920's babies....

[Blue70]

The new online collection of Liverpool electoral registers has produced some interesting results. Here are some matching results:-

1925 - 15 Springfield Liverpool: Patrick McMahon

1939-40 - 127 Falkner Street L8: Patrick McMahon, Mary McMahon

1945 - 3 Stitt Street Everton L6: Mary McMahon, Patrick McMahon
1950 - 3 Stitt Street Everton L6: Mary McMahon, Patrick McMahon
1955 - 3 Stitt Street Everton L6: Patrick McMahon


I didn't have enough time to scrutinise other years enough to identify your people but one result for 1920 could be your Patrick McMahon it is in St Anne's Ward same ward as Springfield the address was a lodging house with various residents staying so it was the sort of place recent arrivals from Ireland might stay while they assessed their work prospects:-

1920 - 53/55 Richmond Row Liverpool: Patrick McMahon



Blue