Liverpool & South West Lancashire FHS - Forum

Hi all, I'm trying to unravel details of my great grandmother, Bridget Montague or McTague. Her marriage certificate has her as McTague (married Charles William McKeon on 12th June 1873. I have a copy of her marriage certificate which has her name as McTague. FreeBMD has her in Liverpool GRO 8b 463. Spouse name recorded as either Briget McTague, Bridget McTague or Bridget McTaque! Her father's name was Edward, and on the marriage certificate is a boarding housekeeper. One of the witnesses is a Mary Ann Montague!

I have just received a PDF from GRO of her daughter Margaret McKeon's birth in June 1879. Mother's name is recorded as Bridget McKeon, formerly Montague.

I have the GRO birth records for all three of Bridget's children, and all state mother's maiden name as Montague. The names are quite similar. If you take out the letter 'c' from McTague and add 'on' then you can see how they can be transcribed incorrectly.

In the 1881, 1891 and 1901 census, she is shown as McKeon and born in Liverpool, in 1855, 1856 or 1857. I can find one entry in the 1861 census for a Bridget McTigue, born Liverpool, father Edward, who is a shoekeeper, born Ireland.

Then there is an entry in the 1871 census for the same family, spelled Montague. Mary Anne Montague is one of the sisters, born in Ireland, presumably the witness to the wedding.

All I want to do is find Bridget's birth records. I've looked at FMP and GRO for Montague and McTague, but can't find her. When I do, I would like to order a copy of her birth certificate. My tree has her as McTague, as do several others, so I would like to ensure that we are all singing from the same hymn sheet!

Just as an update, I have found one of her brothers, James Patrick, who in the 1871 census is living at 50 Dublin Street Liverpool. There is a burial entry for the same chap at the same address in Ford cemetery, from 1871. At least I'm on track for finding out about other members of the family. He is shown as Patrick James Montague. I'm having trouble reading the grave number. It looks like SB41. If anybody would like to help, it is on page 403 of 472 in the Liverpool, England, Catholic Burials, 1813-1987 Ford cemetery 1866 - 1872. A number of my relatives are in Ford. I doubt there is a gravestone, but...
Doing a search of Montague's in Ford brings up 47 Montagues. I have now found Bridget's mother, also called Bridget, in the same grave as Patrick James. It appears that it is Montague rather than McTague. Still no sign of my Bridget's birth though, although she is buried in the same grave as her mum, brother and probably a few more, under her married name.

I have also searched for her brother Francis, who is shown on the 1861 census as being born in 1858 in Liverpool. Again, nothing on FreeBMD or GRO. Strange.

Many thanks for reading,

John

Possible:-

MCTIGHE, BRIDGET
JEFFRIES
1855
Oct/Nov/Dec
LIVERPOOL
Volume 8B
Page 71


Blue

The 1861 census address looks like Saltney/Saltury St?


Birth, 27 Feb, 1854,
Baptism, 4 March, 1855
St Augustine,

Same address,


Name:
James McTighe
Age:
0
Birth Date:
2 Jul 1853
Baptism Date:
10 Jul 1853
Baptism Place:
St Augustine (Augustini), Lancashire, England
Father:
Edwd Mctighe
Mother:
Bridgt Mctighe

Godparents,
James Cain, Charlotte Hagerty.

Burial,

There doesn't appear to be Section SB, I would favour SP.

Brilliant finds there Bert, very clever thinking, I can't find a birth registration for James to confirm the mother's maiden name.

Having looked at the burial entry I would agree with SP.

Thank you so much to all of you for your efforts. I agree that the plot in Ford cemetery is SP. It is very considerate of my relatives to have themselves buried near to each other. I now have a number buried in Plots R, SP and SD!

I looked at the baptismal record for Bridget, but was thinking that 'Saltney' was the one in Chester, rather than a street, as there was an entry for 'Formby' on the same page. It certainly looks like Saltney on the 1861 census. The rest of the family are on the next page, including young Bridget.

Regarding James McTighe, if that is another son, then as he is not on the 1861 record presumably he would have died before then. There is a record on GRO of a James McTighe 1854 Mar Volume 08b page 32 aged 0. Could be him. Strange that I cannot find a GRO entry for James or Bridget. If Blue's extract is correct, would the birth have been registered 12 months late and after the Baptism? If I could get both with the same mother's name it would be great, but just can't find the 2 of them in GRO to prove it!

No trace of a birth of Francis in 1858 in Liverpool either, as he is on the 1861 record as age 3 and born in Liverpool. The daughter Maryann is showing as being born about 1850 in Ireland, so they must have moved to England in the next year or two after that if James and then Bridget were born in Liverpool. There is an entry for a Purcell McTighe, born in Liverpool in Sep 1854. Wonder who he was! Checked records, different parents.

Compulsory registration of births was 1875, prior to that date it was hit and miss. Blue's find could be a late registration, perhaps the parents were unaware or the registrar caught up with them late?

Assuming the McTighe/Jeffries were a married couple, there doesn't appear to be a marriage in England & Wales, Edward McTighe/Bridget Jeffries, which may suggest an Irish marriage.

No other children were registered to that combination between 1840/1870.

Can we still apply for the birth cert and stipulate parents have to be Edward McTighe and Bridget Jeffries and expect a refund if wrong?

Hi Bert, many thanks again for your investigative skills, and also to Blue and Mary for their contributions. Based on the fact that the first few children were shown on the census returns, then I'm going with the Irish wedding scenario. I have trawled through a few Irish genealogy search websites, but due to the period in question, I'm struggling to get any results at all for the births of the children, let alone the marriage. If only one of the returns had stated a county, as well as Ireland, then at least I could have narrowed the search. My only other route would be to take out yet another subscription to rootsireland for a month and try through there.

At least I have now identified that the McTighe/McTaghe/Montague are the same family. I'll pop along to Ford cemetery today and pay my respects.

Thanks again.

It has often seemed that parents have either postponed or ignored birth registrations due to lack of money, Irish however, often will have the children baptised, perhaps they thought this was enough?

Bertieone wrote: Can we still apply for the birth cert and stipulate parents have to be Edward McTighe and Bridget Jeffries and expect a refund if wrong?

Yes I believe you should be able to do this, worth trying at least.

Here's a link to Patrick Neill's Ford Cemetery usage guide showing private and public sections at Ford:-

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.anc ... _Usage.pdf


Blue

Thanks both for the relpies. I have been looking through the Ancestry Catholic burial records, and as well as the Ford Cemetery records, there are a couple from St Augustine's. Not sure if this was where the service was carried out or a death record, and Bridget senior is there.

Interestingly though, there is a record from St Augustine's for a George Montague, died in 1881 formerly of Saltney, where the other Montagues were in a census return. Ford cemetery records show his residence at Princes Deadhouse (?) in Public plot SV621.

No idea who he is. More exploring to do.

By the way, although I would not publish any records on the forum, I have access to the 1939 collection on FMP if you don't have this and need a lookup. Just a way of saying thanks.

Prince's Deadhouse,

Deadhouse at Prince's Dock. (Mortuary)

July 1881

MaryA wrote:It has often seemed that parents have either postponed or ignored birth registrations due to lack of money, Irish however, often will have the children baptised, perhaps they thought this was enough?

Bertieone wrote: Can we still apply for the birth cert and stipulate parents have to be Edward McTighe and Bridget Jeffries and expect a refund if wrong?

Yes I believe you should be able to do this, worth trying at least.

Thanks Mary,

Yes, worth trying, enlightenment one way or the other.

Bertieone wrote:Prince's Deadhouse,

Deadhouse at Prince's Dock. (Mortuary)

July 1881

Ah, thanks Bert, so that's what a Deadhouse is. I did wonder. Also wonder who this guy is. Maybe he was the brother of Edward. Born within five or 6 years of each other. I'll park that one for now, got things closer to home to find!

I popped in to Ford cemetery before to see if I could find the Montague/McTague grave at SP41, and lo and behold, there it was. Well, sort of.
.

Even though the name in the Ford cemetery record book is Montague, the stone says McTague! Surprised that only Patrick is shown, as there are several other family members in there. Owen Montague/McTague was his brother as stated. Patrick James was the first to die, his mother in 1877 and his father in 1883, both in the same grave.

Flipping families

Well done that's a great result. It's possible that the family didn't have the money later to add additional names onto the stone.

MaryA wrote:Well done that's a great result. It's possible that the family didn't have the money later to add additional names onto the stone.

That was my thinking Mary. I have not got a death record for Owen and was looking for him and his father Edward in the census returns. I can't see Edward anywhere in 1881 (he died in 1883). There is an entry in the 1891 return for an Owen Montague in a pauper's house in Liverpool. I wonder why, as both parents were still alive at the time of Patrick's death that they did not erect the gravestone or were not mentioned. Here it is in full:

Great Find for you,congratulations!
As for the surname I have similar experience with 'Riley'= (Reilley,Reilly,Reelly etc)and when you think long and hard about it your (and mine) forebear was probably on the run from the Potato Famine and likely used Celtic as their main spoken language? They were more than likely illiterate and how the various 'scribes' would record it would be based on how the name was pronounced to them.
We English would nowadays emphasise the 'you' at the back of the word but your family may have pronounced it with the emphasis on the central 'a' and a silent 'U', thus the confusion with 'mon' and 'mac' maybe ?

VicMar1 wrote:Great Find for you,congratulations!
As for the surname I have similar experience with 'Riley'= (Reilley,Reilly,Reelly etc)and when you think long and hard about it your (and mine) forebear was probably on the run from the Potato Famine and likely used Celtic as their main spoken language? They were more than likely illiterate and how the various 'scribes' would record it would be based on how the name was pronounced to them.
We English would nowadays emphasise the 'you' at the back of the word but your family may have pronounced it with the emphasis on the central 'a' and a silent 'U', thus the confusion with 'mon' and 'mac' maybe ?

Thank you. It wouldn't be half as much fun if it were easy. I totally agree with the comments about the spelling of the name and how people heard it and wrote it. It would be good to find out exactly who else is in the grave though. I know there are a couple of others but maybe someone else whose name was spelled differently and I haven't seen the record.