Liverpool & South West Lancashire FHS - Forum

Hello. I've come across your forum and I hope you can help me over my brick wall. The 1911 census shows my great grandmother Sarah Hughes was born in Liverpool. I know a fair bit about her life after she married in Bristol in 1910, but so far her early life remains a mystery.

Her marriage certificate (March 1910) shows she was 30. It gives her father's name as William Hughes and his occupation as Builder. Her daughter, my grandmother, was called Edith Mary and she always said she was named after both her grandmothers. I know her paternal grandmother was Mary Jane so it is a reasonable assumption her maternal grandmother was Edith.

I have found a builder called William Hughes with a wife called Edith on the 1891 cenus living in the West Derby area – 18 Ash Grove. They have 7 children, one of which is a Sarah of about the right age. My problem is I can't find any other records for this family. I can't find a marriage record for a William Hughes and an Edith, neither can I find christening records for Sarah or her siblings where the mother and father are William and Edith. Also wife Edith's age is given as 29 but Sarah's oldest sibling's age is 15 which is a bit odd. Given that William's age is 43, it could be a second marriage where some of the children are from his first marriage, but the children's ages descend every 2 years in regular order – I would have expected a gap between the two families.

I have lots of documents relating to Sarah and her family after 1910 and at no time does she give a middle name or initial. She gives her husband's 3 christian names and uses her children's middle names freqently so I can't believe she would omit using her own second name if she had one.

If any member can help me confirm I am on to the right Hughes family, or suggest a different family that I haven't come across yet, I would be very grateful. I don't live in the UK so visiting places like the records office is not on the cards.

Many thanks from a newbie.

1881,
54 Chester rd
RG11 P3712 F92 P27

William Hughes 33 Liverpool, Builder
Lilian Hughes 5
Florence Hughes 3
Edith M. Pritchard 19
Elizabeth Williams 19

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/ss ... &h=9290335

1891 census (family)

William Hughes 43
Edith Hughes 29
Lillian Hughes 15
Florence Hughes 13
Sarah Hughes 11
William Hughes 9
Edith Hughes 7
Mable Hughes 5
Elsie Hughes 3


Possible birth?

HUGHES, ELSIE, Mothers maiden name, PRITCHARD
GRO Reference: 1888 M Quarter in WEST DERBY Volume 08B Page 341

Possible births,

Lilian Jane Hughes 1876 West Derby 8b 554

Florence Hughes, 1877 West Derby 8b 592

Mothers maiden name, Westerman.

?


Marriages Sep 1873

Hughes William W. Derby 8b 908
Paden Richard Joseph West Derby 8b 908
Waring Louisa Clara W. Derby 8b 908
WESTERMAN Sarah W. Derby 8b 908

HUGHES, SARAH, mm,name WESTERMAN
GRO Reference: 1879 D Quarter in WEST DERBY & TOXTETH PARK Volume 08B Page 576

HUGHES, GERTRUDE mmn,PRITCHARD
GRO Reference: 1891 J Quarter in WEST DERBY Volume 08B Page 616

Apart from the marriage registration William & Sarah Westerman, there doesn't appear to be sight of a marriage cert, also baptisms for the children, perhaps William was Welsh Presbyterian or similar and the marriage and baptisms may be found there.

I don't think he married Edith, just lived as a married couple.

Possible burial for Sarah Hughes at St Mary's Cemetery Kirkdale. Sarah Hughes of Marsden Street (probably Marsden although I thought the 's' in Marsden was an 'a'), aged 25 years, died 5th November 1879, cause: scarlatina, buried 8th November 1879:-

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cat=396903


Blue

There was a Thomas Hughes, builder, at 16 Marsden Street in Gore's Directory 1879.


Blue

I think Bert is right in identifying Sarah Hughes born 1879 daughter of William Hughes and Sarah Westerman as your Sarah Hughes. This Sarah's mother Sarah Westerman appears to have been born in 1854 in Barton Upon Irwell registration district the daughter of John Henry Westerman and Hannah Woodward shown here in 1861:-

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M7NF-M5W


John Henry Westerman and Hannah Woodward married at St Nicholas CE Liverpool on 27 Nov 1831:-

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cat=261432


You will need to get the Sarah Hughes birth certificate and the Hughes/Westerman marriage certificate to ensure the above research is correct:-

https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/cert ... efault.asp


Blue

Was Sarah alive in 1939? If so where was she living? What was her name in 1939? Was it Sarah Edwards? If she was recorded on the 1939 Register her date of birth will be included in her entry. If this date of birth is the same as the 1879 birth certificate or similar it would help to prove you have the right person.


Blue

1901 census
RG13 P3485 F41 P25
91 Hughes Street,

William Hughes 19
Florence Hughes 23
Edith Hughes 18
Mabel Hughes 15
Gertrude Hughes 9
Evelyn Macnaughton 19

1871, Wales,
RG10 P5649 F60 P11
Mold,

J H Westerman 58
H C Westerman 56
A J Westerman 23
Sarah Westerman 16
Eliza Westerman 14

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/ss ... h=27212583

John Henry Westerman
Baptism
Birth Date:
18 Oct 1812
Baptism Date:
30 Dec 1812
Parish:
Manchester, St Mary, St Denys and St George
Father's name:
Daniel Westerman
Mother's name:
Elizabeth Westerman

Wrexham Advertiser, March 21, 1891, Obit,

Welcome to the forum, Bertieone seems to have found a wealth of information for you, I'm sure this will help with your research.

Wow, so much information and in less than 24 hours. Thank you.

Blue. Sarah was alive in September 1928 when she "fetched" her last child from the orphanage in Bristol. She gave an address in Bath and she was still Mrs Edwards. I'm pretty sure she isn't on the 1939 register, although I don't have full access to it whereas I think her 2 sons are. Likewise we are fairly sure Sarah isn't in the photos at my grandmother's wedding in 1936.

Bert. Iim sure this is also the right family but I wonder where Sarah was on the 1881 census. She would have been at least a year old at the time.

Many thanks for all your help.

I've looked for Sarah in 1881, we know persons were probably left off census forms through enumerators errors, also counted in with other families as daughter, etc. when staying with them.

Classique24 wrote:.... on the 1939 register, ..... I think her 2 sons are.

Details please of the sons names, years of birth and where, that you have found, somebody may be able to check who they are with.

Thank you for the offer Mary, but I know exactly what happened to grandmother Edith and her brothers after they left the orphanage. Although I haven't full access to the 1939 register, it does confirm they were where I thought they should be (if that makes sense).

Thanks to the forum I'm now able to apply for Sarah's birth certificate and her parent's marriage certificate and then hopefully confirm her presumed death in 1936. I became interested in Sarah's life because some bits and pieces of hers were passed on to me in a shoebox in 1986. Nothing of any material value, letters, samples of hair on a card, etc. I didn't think anything of it back then, but following the Brexit vote (and now living in europe) I started looking for Irish relatives and that kick-started the interest in family history and particularly Sarah's box of bits.

I will most certainly come back to the Hughes family at some point but I've had a quick look and finding William's family line, birth and death looks a daunting prospect for a novice like me. Too many William Hughes' in Liverpool around that time ! The Westerman side of the family initially looks more straightforward, especially as you have already started it for me.

Once again, thank you for all your help regarding Sarah.