Liverpool & South West Lancashire FHS - Forum

Can anyone help me with research I am doing on my great grandmother, Mary Ann Murphy. I am trying to get a copy of her Birth Certificate.

I know from Liverpool, England, Catholic Burials, 1813-1988, Ref No: 282 FOR, that she was born on 4/8/1863 and baptised at St. Francis Xavier on 16/8/1863. Her parents were William and Mary Murphy (nee Redmond).

England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915, has a Mary Ann Murphy’s birth registered in Jul-Sep 1863, in Liverpool, Vol 8b, Pg 93. This is the only Mary Ann Murphy registered in the quarter.

I ordered the Birth Certificate from GRO. The certificate was returned (1863, Sept Quarter, Vol 8b, Page 93) but it was for a different Mary Ann Murphy; DoB 23/7/1863, registered 25/8/1863; parents were James Murphy and Julia Murphy (formerly Grady); so … a different DoB and different mother.

I cannot find another Mary Ann Murphy registered in the same quarter in 1863. There is a Mary Murphy (not Mary Ann Murphy) registered in Liverpool in the same quarter (1863, Sept Quarter, Vol 8b, Page 109). This may be her ? Before I order this certificate does anyone have any other ideas or suggestions for next steps ?

I cannot find a Mary Ann Murphy born in 1863 on Lancashire BMD.

The other major pieces of info I know about Mary Ann are:
• Married Martin Joseph Finnegan 2/8/1886 at Our Lady of Reconciliation, Eldon Street – I have copy of Marriage Cert
• Died 7/12/1925 – I have copy of Death Cert
• Census info for 1881, 1891, 1901 and 1911 showing her living in Burlington Street and Eldon Place.
• She had 6 children
• Her husband Martin aged 35, and son Andrew 15 months old, died within 2 days of each other and were buried on the same day, 13 Feb 1894, in the same grave (Plot P182) at Ford Cemetery, Liverpool. Martin died of a suspected heart attack and Andrew died of Marasmus (in simple terms starvation). Mary, 30 years old, was left a widow with no income and 5 children under 7 to support. One of them was my grandfather Martin Patrick Finnegan, aged 4. She did not remarry.

If anyone has any tips or suggestions I would really appreciate it.

Perhaps an error made when registering?

MURPHY, MARY ANN, REDMAN
GRO Reference: 1863 D Quarter in WEST DERBY AND TOXTETH PARK Volume 08B Page 346


Caution needed, there was a Murphy/ Redman marriage, so probably theirs.

Denis,

are you aware you can register and log in here,
http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certi ... efault.asp

Gives maiden names up to 1915/16

DenisOrmesher wrote: I cannot find another Mary Ann Murphy registered in the same quarter in 1863. There is a Mary Murphy (not Mary Ann Murphy) registered in Liverpool in the same quarter (1863, Sept Quarter, Vol 8b, Page 109). This may be her ? Before I order this certificate does anyone have any other ideas or suggestions for next steps ?
.

From GRO

MURPHY, MARY
GRO Reference: 1863 S Quarter in LIVERPOOL Volume 08B Page 109
Mother's Maiden Surname:
From a small survey we done, no mothers maiden name may suggest no fathers name on certificate.

Bertieone wrote:Perhaps an error made when registering?

MURPHY, MARY ANN, REDMAN
GRO Reference: 1863 D Quarter in WEST DERBY AND TOXTETH PARK Volume 08B Page 346


Caution needed, there was a Murphy/ Redman marriage, so probably theirs.

Bertie,

Thanks for the suggestion.

What areas of Liverpool would register births in WEST DERBY AND TOXTETH PARK (as the Mary Ann with Mother Redman) you mention above was, rather than in Liverpool ? Would this be South Liverpool ?

I know (from Liverpool, England, Catholic Baptisms, 1802-1906) that Mary Ann was baptised at St. Francis Xavier's Church, Salisbury Street, Everton on 16/8/1863. Assuming they were living near the church would Mary Ann's birth likely to be registered in Liverpool or in WEST DERBY AND TOXTETH PARK (as the Mary Ann with Mother Redman) you mention was ?

Regards,

Denis

Hi Denis,

The link is Parish=Registration.

http://www.ukbmd.org.uk/genuki/places/regindex2-1.pdf

Everton=West Derby

Hi Bert,

It's confusing looking at all those Mary Murphys there was another Murphy/Redman birth on the GRO as follows:-

MURPHY, MARY
REDMAN
1863
J Quarter (Apr/May/Jun)
LIVERPOOL
Volume 8B
Page 23


Blue

Blue, there was 2 births in 1863,

Mary Murphy, Redman, J Qtr, Liverpool

Mary Ann Murphy, Redman, D Qtr, West Derby,

Also deaths that could possibly be those children?

Denis could order without the index information "Is the GRO Index Reference Number known? - No" on the year 1863 and specifying that the parents were William and Mary etc? So he doesn't receive the wrong certificate.


Blue

Blue70 wrote:Denis could order without the index information "Is the GRO Index Reference Number known? - No" on the year 1863 and specifying that the parents were William and Mary etc? So he doesn't receive the wrong certificate.


Blue

Yes Blue, best way to go.

Possible marriage for at least one of the children,


Marriages Jun 1863

Burns Alice Liverpool 8b 482
Clare John Liverpool 8b 482
MURPHY John Liverpool 8b 482
Redman Mary Liverpool 8B 482

According to Lancs BMD, John Murphy married Alice Burns, that doesn't help.

Q4. If I don’t have the index reference number what will happen?

"If you are unable to trace or do not have the index reference you may still apply online for any event which took place on or after 1st July 1837 to 6 months from the current date (for marriages this period is extended to 18 months) provided you have sufficient information to identify the entry. A 3 year search for the index reference will be carried out. You should supply the exact date of event if you have it. If you don't have the exact date, enter 01/01/YYYY and we will search the specified year and one year either side. If you do not provide an index reference number, your application will take up to 15 working days to process. There is a separate policy for events which have taken place in the last 50 years and full identifying information must be provided (see Q7 under “Important information on delivery times and policies.”)"

https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/cert ... tificates4


Blue

Blue, Bertie.

Many thanks for your help.

I did not realise I could order from GRO without the correct GRO Index Ref No.

I have gone ahead and ordered Birth Cert specifying the DoB (known from baptism records) and the full names of parents. I understand that this means I will get the correct certificate or a refund of the payment fee.

Thanks again.

Regards,

Denis

Hope there was somewhere for you to include a telephone number. In the past I have specified an exact DOB and they have found an entry two days out, they telephoned to ask me if I still wanted it, they are good like that.