Liverpool & South West Lancashire FHS - Forum

I hope to visit Ford Cemetery in the next few months to check on some ancestor graves (I live away from Liverpool so not able to do regularly).

I have the Plot numbers of the graves (from Liverpool Catholic Burials), although sometimes the numbers are not clear. I have not visited the Cemetery before and would appreciate any tips.

- how easy are the graves to find from the Plot Numbers ?
- can I check location of grave before visiting to save wasting any time ?
- are grave location records available anywhere - ideally on-line or through a helpful Cemetery office or custodian ?

Any tips or suggestions would be welcome.

Any help here?

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.anc ... /maps.html

Denis
It depends on which section your graves are in. If they are in the sections of privately-owned graves, you should be able to find the ones you want without too much difficulty. Not all of them have gravestones, and many of the stones that DO exist don't have helpful numbers on the back (but some do), so you should be armed with lots of names from the rows and columns around the grave you are searching for. Then if you find a stone with, say, Joe Soap's name on it, you will know that the one you want is twelve along and three back.
If, however, the grave you want is in one of the public grave sections, they are just open grassy fields, with no features at all. Unless you really go for it with a surveyors tape, there is no way you could identify the exact spot. For those people, there is a memorial stone on section Q (I think) which acts as a focus for the thousands of un-memorialised burials.
Barbara

Hi Denis,

1. How easy are the graves to find from the Plot Numbers?

Presumably you are looking for private graves. Public graves are located in large grassed areas without any markings. What I did to find private graves at Ford and other cemeteries was to take a paper copy of the section map and plan ahead by navigating a route along the footpaths to each section. Finding a private grave can be easy or it can be difficult depending on how many gravestones are in the section and how many are clearly marked with a section and number. Section and number are usually found on the reverse side of gravestones and you will need to look at a couple to see which way the numbers go. There will be gaps in the rows where private graves don't have a gravestone. You will need to include these spaces in your count towards the grave you are looking for. Be careful that you don't mistake a gap between two sections as a gap of unmarked graves. Make sure the section is the one you want on the reverse of the gravestones.


2. Can I check location of grave before visiting to save wasting any time?

There are online maps showing the private sections and the footpaths:-

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.anc ... /maps.html

There is also a usage guide showing what sections are private and what are public:-

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.anc ... _Usage.pdf

Unfortunately there are no facilities to check whether or not a grave has a gravestone on it or not.


3. Are grave location records available anywhere - ideally on-line or through a helpful Cemetery office or custodian?

For further enquiries about graves at Liverpool RC Cemetery/Ford Cemetery contact the Catholic Cemeteries Administration at Liverpool RC Diocese:-

http://www.liverpoolcatholic.org.uk/Finance



Blue

Bert, Barbara, Blue,

Many thanks for the tips - really useful.

Regards,

Denis

I am finally visiting Ford Cemetery this week.

I have a list of grave numbers to look for and a map of Ford Cemetery showing the various sections from the link provided by Blue70 some time ago ...

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.anc ... /maps.html

Can anyone help to point me in the right direction to find graves when the section is not shown on the map ?

e.g.

A109 - 15/7/1903 - Honor Mulholland nee O'Malley or Melia - I cannot see a section marked just "A"

U350 - 12/12/1990 - James Lysaght Finegan or Finigan

SS151 - 20/2/1870 - William Murphy - cannot see a "SS" section

Also some numbered graves with no preceding letter e.g.
495 - 29/9/1912 - William Murphy
2544 - 25/?/1888 - William Murphy
658 - 1/6/1913 - Mary Murphy

Are these in the unmarked Public graves area ?

Any suggestions welcome.

I don't have access to Ancestry at the moment to double check any entries. Be sure that you have noted the right sections from the original images. Section letters are often left off in the burial records and you sometimes have to look above for an entry in the same section. If the section you have noted down doesn't correspond to anything on the map or the usage guide then it could be that you've noted it wrong. Grave details that appear for a number of people on the page are for public graves. Private grave details don't usually appear in sequence on the page as public grave details do. There is a look-up offer From Ozranga on RootsChat where she can look-up private graves at Ford Cemetery that might be useful to you:-

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.ph ... 651292.531


Blue

Quick response to those queries:-

A: usage guide says public
U and 1990: no U as far as I know where did you get 1990 from one? Was this from the RC Diocese office?
SS: no SS
Various numbers no letters: probably public, section letters will be at top of page or top of a previous page



Blue

Blue,

Thanks

U350 (unless I have misread it) is from Liverpool, England, Catholic Burials, 1813-1988 for James Lysaght Finigan - shortened url here .... https://goo.gl/vR7a0m

Sorry - typo should have been 1900 not 1990

SS151 (could be SS15) - 20/2/1870 - William Murphy - from Liverpool, England, Catholic Burials
b. abt 1840 Wexford Ireland. d ? - hence wish to view gravestone. (sorry - could not shorten the url)

Hi Denis

I can't access that link as my sub has ran out. If you can list the names with their dates of burial someone with access will likely look them up on here in the morning.


Blue

Thanks Blue

I am looking for

James Finnegan. b. abt 1840 - Wexford, Ireland. D unknown

William Murphy. also b. abt 1840 - Wexford, Ireland. D unknown

There are a number of options shown in the Liverpool, England, Catholic Burials, 1813-1988. I am trying to identify the graves to visit them this week.

DenisOrmesher wrote:Thanks Blue

I am looking for

James Finnegan. b. abt 1840 - Wexford, Ireland. D unknown

William Murphy. also b. abt 1840 - Wexford, Ireland. D unknown

There are a number of options shown in the Liverpool, England, Catholic Burials, 1813-1988. I am trying to identify the graves to visit them this week.

Hi Denis,

Do you have any more information for these men from the census records etc to help to determine when they died? We usually have a rough idea when someone died as they disappear from the census records, wives become widows, husbands become widowers etc. Not all Catholics were buried at Ford Cemetery. Many Catholics were buried in parish or council cemeteries or in C of E or RC churchyards.


Blue

Blue,

Re: James Finnegan.

He is my 2nd great grandfather - my maternal grandfather's paternal grandfather.

We know he was born abt 1840 in Wexford but have not found any evidence of him in Liverpool yet, so unsure if he ever came to Liverpool. It seems he was dead by 1886 as he his mentioned as a deceased Fireman on his son's marriage certificate. His son Martin Joseph Finnegan was born abt 1859 in Wexford. Martin was in Liverpool by 1881. On the 1881 Census Martin was a Cotton Porter, aged 21, boarding with the family of William and Mary Murphy (parents of his future wife, Mary Anne Murphy, an 18 year Bookbinder) at 127 Burlington Street, Liverpool.

According to their Marriage Certificate Martin Finnegan, 26 year old, of 27 Evelyn Street, son of James Finnegan (deceased Fireman), married Mary Ann Murphy, 23, of 165 Burlington Street, daughter of William Murphy (Engine Driver). Witnesses James Murphy and Margaret McCormick.

Re: William Murphy.

He is my 2nd great grandfather - my maternal grandfather's maternal grandfather.

We know he was born abt 1840 in Wexford. He appears on the Censuses of 1861, 1881, 1891, 1901 and 1911 at various addresses in the Vauxhall area of Liverpool (McVicar Street,Burlington Street, Rose Hill, Eldon Street, Eldon Place etc). He was married to Mary Redmond on 12 Oct 1862 at St Francis Xavier, Liverpool.

In 1911 he was living in 57 Eldon Place, Liverpool. He was Widowed and living with his daughter (Jane Radford nee Murphy) and son-in-law James Radford. He was employed as an Engine Driver in a Sugar Refinery. This is the last trace I have of him.

I am hoping to find the gravestones to help fill in some of the gaps and use this to trace other family members. I am visiting on Friday morning.

There is more info on my Family Tree on Ancestry which is a public tree - "Denis Joseph Ormesher Family Tree".

Any suggestions as to where their graves may be would be welcome.

First off I've been told that the gardeners at Ford are very helpful at finding Graves, seek them out when you arrive and ask their assistance.

William Murphy - not sure the Section is SS, in the clip I have shown below you can see that in the page to the left somebody has written an SJ rather more clearly and this I believe is what yours is. But the number appears to be 15 not 151, the last 1 I believe is a mark somebody may have been counting, past the end column. If you scroll down the page you will see that there are a lot of burials in this section and indeed another on the same page in the same grave number, indicating a general grave, you probably won't find a headstone.

DenisOrmesher wrote: U350 (unless I have misread it) is from Liverpool, England, Catholic Burials, 1813-1988 for James Lysaght Finigan - shortened url here .... https://goo.gl/vR7a0m

Sorry - typo should have been 1900 not 1990

I would think that should be M rather than U. With the evidence that you have (Burial Register to prove that he is deceased) ask Roger Hull at the Archives if you can view the records for Rainhill, they are very informative, possibly even including a photograph - take your camera!

If you are at the Record Office, then check the box of microfiche for Ford/Yewtree/Ainsdale. The burials are typed up and you can find them by alphabetical order - that's not to say that somebody hasn't also read a letter incorrectly, however when you believe you have the correct grave number, you can then cross reference it at the back of the box where it gives the full list of who else is buried in the same grave.

Final answer to your queries, if there is no letter for a section, then the likelihood is that the burial would be in the X Public section.

Mary,

Many thanks - really useful

Can you let me have the address contact details for the Record Office please ?

A tip that may be useful for others reading this is to go to Google Maps for Ford Cemetery and go to Satellite View. If you zoom in you can identify the sections, by referencing to the map layout (link from Blue and others), and see which sections have graves and which have grassed areas, and no headstones, presumably the "public graves".

Doing this I can see clearly that Section SJ has no headstones.

https://liverpool.gov.uk/libraries/arch ... y-history/
Use the email form via the Contact Us button, bottom right.

A big Thank You to those members who gave me tips on visiting Ford Cemetery.

A big Thank You also to the lady at the RC Archdiocese Cemetery Office, who was a great help with info.

The visit helped to answer some questions, to rule out some possibilities, and to throw up many more questions to follow up - the Joys of Genealogy !

I am always amazed how so many members of the Liverpool & South West Lancashire FHS are prepared to go out of their way on this Forum to help other members with advice, comments and tips.

Thank You.