Liverpool & South West Lancashire FHS - Forum

Hi all, my wife's grandfather, George Clifford Smith was married in St. John's Bootle in 1927. I am working my way through her family, but her great grandfather is proving trickier. He is in the 1911 census living in Kirkdale with his wife and 2 children, having been married for 5 years.

Her GGF is shown as Clifford Smith, born Birmingham Warwickshire about 1873. His spouse is Alice Maud Smith, born in Poplar, London about 1885. The family always knew him as Clifford George Smith. I can't find any record of a Clifford Smith marrying an Alice Maud (surname unknown) from Poplar.

Their first child (my wife's GF) was born in 1907, so I'm looking at the marriage a couple of years before. There is one entry from 1904 in Wolverhampton, where a Frederick Clifford Smith married an Alice Blower. There is an entry in the FreeBMD of an Alice Maud Blower being born in 1886 in Hackney, London. There was talk in the family that the GGF altered his name, potentially calling himself Clifford rather than Frederick.

I'm wondering if the 1927 marriage certificate will give the GGF's name, and also I'm struggling with which Registration district Birmingham came under in the 1880's to obtain a certificate.

Many thanks as ever,

John

As you know when your wife's grandfather was born, maybe purchasing a copy of his birth certificate would help. This would give you his mother's maiden name which would assist with a marriage certificate.

Perhaps mothers maiden name, Perry?

If the 1911 census has been recorded correctly, relationships to the head,

Nellie Perry, 18, Bn Poplar, single, sister in law.

I have to agree with Bert, you need the son's birth certificate.

There is a great lack of "Clifford Smiths" born C1873 in the Birmingham area, one you might consider is
Births Mar 1878
SMITH Clifford Lakin King's N. 6c 483

which doesn't fit, but there is also a marriage that you might consider

Marriages Jun 1904
Griffiths William Allen King's N 6c 904
Perry Alice Maud King's N. 6c 904
SMITH Thomas Ernest King's N. 6c 904
Whitehouse Ann Eleanor King's N 6c 904

I have found the other couple in Oldbury Staffordshire married to each other so worth putting these on file.

Thanks for all the advice folks, much appreciated as ever. I have Nelly Perry as marrying George Clifford Smith's brother, Walter R Smith in Stourbridge in 1924. The Smith family were supposed to be from Stafford or Birmingham way, so that marriage would fit. Thomas Ernest Smith would fit the bill. There is a Charles Erick Smith marrying an Alice Maud Perry in 1897 in Poplar, London, but if the census is correct, then that would mean she married at age 14.

Is LancashireBMD the best place to get the birth certificate of my wife's grandfather from, or GRO etc., or can I turn up at St. George's Hall and ask for a copy whilst there?

Thanks,

John

The 1897 marriage, Alice Maud Perry,


Name:
Alice Maud Perry

Estimated birth year:
abt 1871

Age:
26

Spouse:
Charles George Townsend

Spouse Age:
24

Marriage
Event Date:
25 Dec 1897
Parish:
St Leonard St Mary, Bromley
Borough:
Tower Hamlets
Father
John Perry
Spouse Father
John Norris Townsend

My wife has just been talking to her eldest aunt. Apparently Clifford Smith and Alice Maud whoever never got married, even though the 1911 census siad so. They must have told a big lie.

Walter R Smith could not have married Nelly Perry as he would only have been 12!

I have also looked up on the Liverpool council website, and can visit in person. I still want to get a copy of my wife's grandfather's birth certificate to find out the full name of Alice Maud and the full name of her great grandfather.

Thanks,

John

You can go to St George's Hall in person and pay £10 or £10.50, I'm not sure of the exact price, you won't be able to take it away with you thought, it will take 7-10 days for it to be posted, similar length of time as it would take if you ordered through the GRO at a cost of £9.25.

Thanks for the advice Mary. I presume there is nowhere to go to see the record?

Not a birth certificate, perhaps a baptism if you knew where, although if it were in a C of E church it wouldn't give you the mother's maiden name anyway, it usually does in an RC church.

MaryA wrote:Not a birth certificate, perhaps a baptism if you knew where, although if it were in a C of E church it wouldn't give you the mother's maiden name anyway, it usually does in an RC church.

Thanks Mary. I'm ordering a copy birth certificate from GRO. Hopefully that will solve half the riddle. My wife's aunt reckons half of the family were gypsies!

Good luck, I hope it tells you what you need. Meantime you might find browsing this post useful.
https://www.liverpool-genealogy.org.uk/ ... =25&t=6937

Finally received my copy certificates from GRO . Alice Groves was her name, and Alice Maud Smith on the 1911 census, so at least I have something to work with .

Thanks for all the help.

John