Joseph VARLEY b c 1782

[lynne99]

Hi, I hope you can help me with the following.
Joseph VARLEY was born , I know not where, but he married in Jan 1807 in Kendal Westmorland, to Margaret Atkinson. Joseph was a leather dresser. I have details of his marriage from the record office at Kendal, also of Margaret's possible birth in Kendal. They married by licence and the bondsman was George Carter. They had a child Samuel in Kendal 1809, I have details of his baptism. Samuel is my Great x 3 Grandfather. They then moved to Liverpool before 1810 when Joseph junior was born. Unfortunately Joseph (the father) died in November 1810 before his youngest son was 1 month old. He died in Dickinson Street and is buried in St John's.
There are 2 things I would like help with;
1. Joseph (senior)'s birthplace and parents and any details of them.
2. Joseph (junior)'s events after his baptism in 1811 at St Peter's.

I have been working on this for a couple of years now and made no progress. Any help would be gratefully received, thanks.

[Bertieone]

Hi Lynne,

I see Joseph Varley's 1811 baptism was recorded as Varlow.

Is it possible we should be looking for a Joseph Weigh?

Henry Weigh married Margaret Varley, 1812, Liverpool, he a Cooper, she a Widow.

They lost a child, 1814, Thomas Weigh, Plumb St, aged 0, also buried at St John's.

If Joseph's mother is the Margaret Varley that married Henry, Joseph may have been brought up with the name, Weigh.

I wonder if young Thomas Weigh and Joseph Varley (Snr) are in the same plot at St John's?

[lynne99]

Thanks Bert. I didn't think that he might have taken his step father's surname. I will have a go at that . Thanks.
Henry died and she then marries Joseph Tickle. A firm of solicitors perhaps. Varley, Weigh and Tickle.
I did not know about the child that died. So thanks for that as well

[lynne99]

Hi, I was hoping some one would come up with this line, independently.
I will give you what I surmise, for you to pick holes in.
Joseph snr was born c 1782 and married in Kendal in 1807. He names his first son Samuel and the second son Joseph (The name of his wife's father). From this I guess that his father's name could be Samuel. Looking on Anc. around 1781/3 I found a Joseph Varley born to a Samuel Varley in 1781in Aysgarth, Yorkshire. His birth was recorded in the Friend's meeting house and his parents recorded as "not in unity". Further checking gives me that this might mean the child born out of wedlock or the parents were married not in the Quaker faith. Looking further I can find a marriage of Samuel Varley and Jane Richardson in 1772 in the parish of Aysgarth. So it may be the latter. I check the rest of their children and their deaths at a young age. I cannot find a death for Joseph when he was young. The other point in favour of this is that Kendal is only 37 Miles from Aysgarth along one continuous road (now called A 684)
What do you think of this and is there any other way I can check it out. Thanks Lynne

[Hilary]

As I discovered when looking for Westmorland Parish Records for a family friend, they along with Cumberland are one of the counties where their actual Church of England registers have not been filmed and made available on line on the 2 main sites as far as I know. What is available on Ancestry for the Church of England I believe is the same as on Family Search and doesn't include all parishes. I remember I had to go to Kendal to get the dates and parishes for the places I wanted.

[lynne99]

Thanks Hillary. I contacted the records office, or equivalent, in Kendal to find Joseph and Margarte's marriage and Margaret's possible birth. They looked for me and couldn't find a suitable birth for Joseph (Snr). Do you think it is easy to move out of the Quaker faith?? Travelling the 30+ miles from Aysgarth to Kendal is quite short compare to the move from Kendal to Liverpool with a small baby.
Thanks for the help so far.

[Hilary]

Generally you would probably expect someone brought up within the Quaker faith to stay within it but there are always exceptions to that.

Travelling from Aysgarth to Kendal would have been quite tortuous in the late 18th century early 19th century and would have taken at least 3 days on foot.

Did the Archives check just Kendal churches or from the surrounding area as well?

I would be inclined to follow up the family of Samuel's possible family in Aysgarth and see what happened to them although I can see you have looked into them. Did they remain in Aysgarth or move to Kendal? Also I would look to see whether there are further mentions of Varley in the Quaker records which may help. Samuel must have been within the Quaker faith to have his child mentioned.

My only other thought would be to perhaps look at Farley's in the area in case the name has been misspelt.

Was yourJoseph educated, does he sign his name?

PS I've been having a little look at the Aysgarth Quaker records and I think they are very likely to be the family you are looking for. I see that Samuel is described as a hosier and sometimes a wool comber on the records and that they live in Burton. I also saw a Varley from London who died at Burton so the family do appear to travel.

A will would be really nice!

Was Joseph also in the wool trade? If yes perhaps that was why he was in Kendal. I see his probable father died in 1806 so perhaps that was why he was in Kendal.

[lynne99]

Thanks for that Hilary. Joseph, who was married in Kendal (1807), did sign his name on his marriage licence. He was a leather dresser. I don't know if the family moved to Kendal with him. Joseph and his wife Margaret moved to Liverpool between April 1809 and Oct 1810, when the second child, Joseph Jnr, was born. It must have been very difficult to make that journey with a small child! Perhaps they had a horse and cart.
The Westmorland records people looked at Kendal district for me.
Back to the Josephs born in the correct time frame. There were only a handful, only 1 with father Samuel. I have found 2 of them in the same place in 1841 census so that limits them.
Samuel that might be the father died in Aysgarth in 1806, but Jane stayed there until her death in 1830. ( They had 12 children, 2 died in Infancy, 1 lived with her mother until her death in 1829. The rest I have not traced.) Perhaps one of his brothers moved with him. I will look at them.
Thanks again for your help.

I have just checked for Joseph Farley births in the correct time scale and the only ones were Worcestershire and London.

[Hilary]

I rather like the Joseph Varley you have found with father Samuel. Samuel has a brother Elihu who is still living in 1857 in West Burton in Aysgarth. I don't think he married so maybe he left a will mentioning his nephew Joseph or the family of his nephew Joseph.

I also googled Elihu and found him and his sister Isabella on a document which it was possible to get a copy of. Unfortunately I've lost the reference.

I also think that Samuel's father came from Hornby where there was also a sibling called Elihu.

[Hilary]

The document was on http://www.familydeeds.org

Elihu's will is on Ancestry but only mentions sister Sarah.

[lynne99]

Hi, Hilary. I already posted this message once, but it appears to have vanished.
Thanks for all your help. I will look for other Varley wills as I had forgotten them. Apart from ancestry , I am sure there is another place to get them from, but I have forgotten,
Thanks again and will (no pun intended, Oh yes it was) keep you informed.

[lynne99]

There is a will on Anc for Betty (Elizabeth) Varley 1849. It mentions all of her relatives and then says if they are all dead it is to go to the son of her brother Joseph. It is difficult to read so if you could help me interpret the last couple of lines, I would appreciate it . Thanks.
It would make you think that this nephew is not close by or they would be higher up the list ... It is in Yorkshire probate records.

[MaryA]

Aren't those Yorkshire Wills great, don't have to pay for them

[Hilary]

Just wrote a reply and lost it!

Basically it says if all my brothers, sisters and niece Sarah are dead she leaves it to her brother Joseph's son and daughter.

However she names her brother Elihu and her brother Samuel as her executors so I suspect she was covering all eventualities and her brother Joseph is at the bottom of her list which I suspect is perhaps because she has not seen him for a very long time although is aware probably that he married and has had children or again is maybe saying son or daughter to cover children but doesn't know names.

I reckon it's cracked and that Your Joseph is Samuel's son.

I do like wills!

[lynne99]

It says to Joseph's children (I think) " to the son & D????? ?????? of my brother Joseph."
I would like help trying to read these 2 words.
The name is Betty VARLEY date of probate 1849; B, urton; Yorkshire, England Probate records.
The phrase is at the end of the first page, Thanks
Hillary, I hadn't even found the second page that talked about the executors. Silly me. Thanks for you help on this. I'm still not completely convinced, but I will put on my tree with a comment in the notes. Thanks once again

[Hilary]

It's son and daughter or heirs of my brother Joseph.

The writing is poor!

[lynne99]

Thanks Hillary. Just a couple of questions
Is Elihu male or female?? No, forgotten the other one.

[Hilary]

Elihu is male, in 1841 he is living with his brother John born 1771 who is a gardener and niece Sarah. In 1851 he has his niece Sarah living with him and is still a gardener. The address is in West Burton Aysgarth. I get the impression that only Joseph marries and the niece Sarah.

[Hilary]

If it was my family I would be inclined to go with this family as they seem to be the best fit at the moment.

Maybe investigate earlier to see if there is any mention in earlier wills of family in Aysgarth. Elihu seems to be a family name so perhaps the family in Hornby would be worth looking at?

[lynne99]

Will do that Hillary, thanks. I have remembered the other question. I can't find Elizabeth (Betty) in the 1841 census. As you know her probate was 1849 in Aysgarth, but the only one I can find is in Liverpool.