Liverpool & South West Lancashire FHS - Forum

Hello, I have been trying to find my grandmothers heritage, Elsie Bruce. Elsie Bruce was married to John Henry Wilkinson, they lived together at 28 Jubilee Drive, Liverpool L30. Elsie Bruce was meant to have been born on 12/04/1906 in Fife, Scotland but I can't find a birth certificate for her. Elsie Bruce died in 2004 in Fazakerley, Liverpool. I have been told that Elsie Bruce my grandmother had only one sister Margaret (Meg) Bruce by my father but according to peoples trees on Ancestry's website Elsie and Margaret are half sisters and in other peoples trees they are not mentioned together. I was wondering does any one know Elsie Bruce's parents names and if her and Meg were sisters and did they have any others siblings? I hope you can help me with this because no one has given me answers on this. Many thanks, Elizabeth

The one other tree I found is clearly not reliable; contradictory father's name, etc.. Do you know the name of Elsie's father or mother?

This looks like her marriage in Ormskirk in 1929:

https://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/informat ... 1470077884

Hi Elizabeth and welcome,

There's one hit on Scotland's People for a Elsie Bruce, born 1906, Fife,

Have you opened it and got the parents details?

luxor wrote:The one other tree I found is clearly not reliable; contradictory father's name, etc.. Do you know the name of Elsie's father or mother?

This looks like her marriage in Ormskirk in 1929:

https://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/informat ... 1470077884

Hello, Luxor. I sent away for a marriage certificate which arrived after my post in the thread, I have been waiting a few weeks for it, It has listed Elsie Bruce's father as James Bruce. On Ancestry their is no match to this name for Elsie Bruce. Margaret's dad is listed as Robert Bruce on Ancestry. Many thanks

Bertieone wrote:Hi Elizabeth and welcome,

There's one hit on Scotland's People for a Elsie Bruce, born 1906, Fife,

Have you opened it and got the parents details?

Hello, Bert. I sent away for a marriage certificate a few weeks ago which arrived today and has listed James Bruce as her father. Margaret's father on Ancestry is Robert Bruce. I will set up an account now on Scotland's People, do you have to pay to search?
Many thanks

Hi Elizabeth,

yes you have to buy credits, I think £7 for 30, use wisely, they soon go.

Hi, in the news events and offers section of this website, there was a post on 22 August on how to get 20 free credits for Scotland People. I don't know if the y have expired , but it is worth a go.

Hi and welcome to the forum.

elizabeth_wilson3 wrote:On Ancestry their is no match to this name for Elsie Bruce. Margaret's dad is listed as Robert Bruce on Ancestry.

You have quoted "on Ancestry" twice but can you tell us where on Ancestry? ie which database or parish register?

Perhaps now you have it you could give us the details from the marriage certificate, including witnesses.

Just searching the indexes on Scotlandspeople I can see that there is indeed an entry for an Elsie Bruce born 1906.

Elizabeth; have you ruled out this one?

James Bruce married Sarah Jane Thompson in 1896
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/2962/ ... PUBJs=true

1901 Census:
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/7814/ ... PUBJs=true

Birth of Elsie Bruce in 1908:
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/2960/ ... PUBJs=true

1911 Census:
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/2352/ ... 3349/facts

MaryA wrote:Hi and welcome to the forum.

elizabeth_wilson3 wrote:On Ancestry their is no match to this name for Elsie Bruce. Margaret's dad is listed as Robert Bruce on Ancestry.

You have quoted "on Ancestry" twice but can you tell us where on Ancestry? ie which database or parish register?

Perhaps now you have it you could give us the details from the marriage certificate, including witnesses.

Just searching the indexes on Scotlandspeople I can see that there is indeed an entry for an Elsie Bruce born 1906.

Hi Mary, thanks for replying. On Ancestry.co.uk in peoples trees searching Margaret Bruce they have said she is born Kirkdale and her parents are listed as Robert Bruce and Margaret Connolly. On an official 1911 census Margaret is listed living with Robert and Margaret and other siblings but not Elsie Bruce. The witnesses at the wedding were Edith Wilkinson sister of John Henry Wilkinson, The other witness listed is John Fredrick Dalton, I don't know who he was. Many thanks, Elizabeth

luxor wrote:Elizabeth; have you ruled out this one?

Hi Luxor, thank you for the links, I will check them out now.

Thank you for the links, you are good to find them, they are really helpful, I have never come across them. I asked my father about his grandmother and he did say he thinks her name was Sarah but is not too sure. I think Sarah Jane is Elsie's mother but i am not sure is James Bruce the father or Robert Bruce, Margaret and Elsie are not listed together or with same parents. So glad I found this website if i hadn't i would be lost and not able to find anything. We will get to the bottom of this! Many thanks, Elizabeth

Elsie Bruce, born 12/4/1906,
Guardbridge, Leuchars, Fife,

Parents, Father, James Bruce, Fireman at Paper mill, Mother, Elsie Bruce, nee Bremner.

Parents married, 25 Feb, 1898. Laurencekirk.

James Bruce Head Married Male 24 1877 Labourer (Papermill) Marykirk, Fife, Scotland
Elsie Bruce Wife Married Female 28 1873 - Alford, Aberdeenshire, Scotland
Mary Ann Bruce Daughter - Female 2 1899 - Edzell, Forfarshire (Angus), Scotland
John R Bruce Son - Male 0 1901 - Leuchars, Fife, Scotland
Robert Bayne Boarder Single Male 23 1878 Stoker (Stationary Engine) Logie, Fife, Scotland

1901 census

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/ss ... d&h=721919

Elizabeth,

If you want to see the above family, 1911 census,

Scotland's People,

Search for,

Mary Ann Bruce, age range, 12 to 12, Fife. other persons forenames, James or Elsie produces 1 hit.

Entering Margaret as other person named produces no hits, however, she may have been born after 1911.

Bertieone wrote:Elsie Bruce, born 12/4/1906,
Guardbridge, Leuchars, Fife,

Parents, Father, James Bruce, Fireman at Paper mill, Mother, Elsie Bruce, nee Bremner.

Great find for the date Bert.
One thing I would suggest to Elizabeth is to base her research on the evidence of her own findings, rather than just picking up trees on Ancestry, you just don't know how they have discovered their details and how accurate they are. Alternatively, the "Margaret" who you have picked up from their trees may not be your Elsie's sister but somebody else entirely. If she proves to be the right one, the reason for the difference in father might be because they are indeed half sisters. Have you checked for two marriages for the mother?

Entirely agree with Mary.

Birth cert for your records, should it be the correct one.

You are very generous Bert, thank you for using your credits to help a forum member.

Bertieone wrote:Entirely agree with Mary.

Birth cert for your records, should it be the correct one.

Thank you so much, you are really kind for doing this. I am so glad I found this website and their are lovely kind people like you on here. I have asked so many people and they have not been able to find this information or given me any names, you are great! I am going to add these names to my tree and hope I find ancestry hints and will be able to trace further back. Thank you Bert!

MaryA wrote:

Bertieone wrote:Elsie Bruce, born 12/4/1906,
Guardbridge, Leuchars, Fife,

Parents, Father, James Bruce, Fireman at Paper mill, Mother, Elsie Bruce, nee Bremner.

Great find for the date Bert.
One thing I would suggest to Elizabeth is to base her research on the evidence of her own findings, rather than just picking up trees on Ancestry, you just don't know how they have discovered their details and how accurate they are. Alternatively, the "Margaret" who you have picked up from their trees may not be your Elsie's sister but somebody else entirely. If she proves to be the right one, the reason for the difference in father might be because they are indeed half sisters. Have you checked for two marriages for the mother?

Thank you so much for all your help, Mary! I will take your advice on board and will do my own research on other websites like on here. I am so happy I have found this website and their are so many helpful people on here! Many thanks