Liverpool & South West Lancashire FHS - Forum

Hi

I am struggling to find an Irish ancestor. The trouble is few records exist as far back as I need them and to search parish records requires knowing where he lived and I only know he came from Ireland.

His name is Richard Whiteside - who is my third great grandfather born in Ireland 1814 (counting back from various English censuses). Where from nobody knows or when, but he appears in the UK for the first time officially when he married in 1837, and was then living in Salmesbury near Preston.

The English censuses of 1841, 1861 and 1871 give his place of birth as just Ireland and the 1851 Census gives it as Preston - which is where he lived.

I've tried all the Irish sites and Ancestry but got nowhere as I have no approximate location for Richard's early years in Ireland nor any indication of his religion except that he married in the Uk into the traditional Church of England. He may have arrived into Fleetwood, Preston or Liverpool, I cannot tell.

Where can I look?

Hi and welcome to the forum.

Unfortunately coming to England from Ireland was like jumping on the ferry, there were no records kept.

Although some of our friends on here may try to help, my best suggestion might be to try a Lancashire forum as we identify more with Liverpool and the surrounding area, in particular the West Derby Hundred https://www.liverpool-genealogy.org.uk/Images/area.jpg

You may also find some of our suggestions for Irish research useful https://www.liverpool-genealogy.org.uk/ ... 14&t=13912

Both Protestants and Catholics used C of E churches for marriages in the 19th century so the marriage won't necessarily establish his religion. Looking at the 1901 Irish Census most people with this surname were Church of Ireland or Presbyterian. Researching the surname location could be useful. An Irish online resource says the surname is 17th century English and has the following statistics in Ireland for the surname based on Griffith's Valuation 1847-64:-

Antrim: 29
Armagh: 18
Belfast City: 18
Down: 35
Dublin: 2
Dublin City: 1
Fermanagh: 2
Galway: 1
Leitrim: 1
Londonderry: 17
Louth: 1
Monaghan: 15
Sligo: 12
Tyrone: 16


Blue

There are quite a lot of Whitesides living in the Fylde area to the north of Preston. They were I understand mainly RC.

Is this his marriage?

Marriage: 24 Jun 1837 St Leonard the Less, Samlesbury, Lancashire, England
Richard Whiteside - (X), this Chapelry
Hellen Lee - (X), this Chapelry
Witness: Roger Beck; Wm. Heaton
Married by Banns by: Fras. Law Cur. Inct.
Register: Marriages 1813 - 1837, Page 159, Entry 475
Source: LDS Film 1526061

There was an RC Archbishop of Liverpool called Thomas Whiteside who was from Lancaster but the Whiteside of this query was Irish-born and most likely to have been Protestant so not likely to be connected in the recent past:-

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Wh ... Liverpool)

They may have distant Scottish roots:-

"WHITESIDE

Origins in Ulster Plantation

The Whitesides arrived in numbers from Scotland in the early years of the Plantation c1625. They can be found both in the 1631 Muster Rolls and the 1666 Hearth Money Rolls in many different Parishes predominantly in County Antrim.

They originate from lands of Whiteside in Lanarkshire."

http://www.ulsterancestry.com/irish-surnames.html


Blue

There were mills in Ulster. There was industry. I can imagine him deciding that he would have a better chance of getting decent work in the Lancashire mills and getting a steamship across. Antrim, Armagh and Down would be good candidates for me but I don't think there are parish records available to prove his specific origins.


Blue

What Blue said... With a name like that, almost certainly Protestant of some flavour... and very likely Armagh, Antrim or Down.

The Irish census site - http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/ - shows that there were 838 Whitesides in Ireland in 1901; only 37 were Roman Catholic.

With the release of RC registers, RC from about 1830 is easy to check. Protestant, I think, is not. IIRC, a lot of CoI records were lost with the census records, in the Four courts explosion in Dublin during the Irish Civil War. The Public Record Office of Northern Ireland has a document listing what they have:

https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/sites/defau ... ecords.pdf

You could determine where most Whitesides lived from the 1901 census and then trawl through what church records are available for those areas. Doesn't look easy.

Edit: Most of Belfast was probably included with County Antrim in the census. That would account for many of the 300+ there. If you could even find a Belfast connection it would narrow the search.

PRONI Will Search

http://apps.proni.gov.uk/DCAL_PRONI_Wil ... earch.aspx

You could investigate if anyone named a Richard Whiteside in a will. I found a family will on there where a daughter was left the farm and all the others got two shillings and sixpence. They were all named - very useful.

luxor wrote:PRONI Will Search

Good thinking!