Liverpool & South West Lancashire FHS - Forum

Ann Lyon was born in Liverpool 1832 according to the 1851 and 1861 census.

She married Henry Povall on 07 Jan 1851 at the Independent Chapel, Queen Street, Chester which I think is a Methodist Church (Henry went on to become a Minister in the church and emigrated to the USA with his 2nd wife). Her father is John Lyon, bricklayer (I have the marriage cert).

Independent Chapel, Queen Street, Chester (marriage certificate) Henry of full age a tailor and Ann 19 years old a dressmaker both of Huxley, Cheshire. Witnesses James Sadler and Elizabeth Lloyd

In the 1851 census they are in Waverton, Cheshire and by 1861 in Liverpool Piece: 2732/F66/page 34
They had 5 children to my knowledge, Sarah, Elizabeth, John, Priscilla and Joseph Lyon Povall.

She died in 1864 and is buried at Toxteth Park, there is a baby in the same grave but with a different street address and who died about 4 or 5 weeks after her so I'm wondering if this was her son and maybe the family had moved??







There are more than a few possibles in the 1841 census but not with a father John a bricklayer. I cannot find a baptism for Ann either......HELP please....

Updated to say I know a fair bit about Henry and the children, it's a link to Ann's family before her marriage I am looking for.

Probable relatives (and a witness) in Huxley in the 1851 census:

Joseph Lyon 59 bricklayer & shopkeeper born Tattenhall
Elizabeth Lyon 54 bricklayer's wife born Tarvin
Eliz. Lloyd, orphan, 15 born Liverpool

Cheshire Observer 24 February 1855

"On the 9th inst, at the New Connexion Chapel, by the Rev. S. Jones, Mr. John Langford, of the Lancashire Insurance Company, Mollington, to Miss E. Lloyd, niece of Mr. Joseph Lyon, of Huxley, near Chester"

retiringtype wrote:Probable relatives (and a witness) in Huxley in the 1851 census:

Joseph Lyon 59 bricklayer & shopkeeper born Tattenhall
Elizabeth Lyon 54 bricklayer's wife born Tarvin
Eliz. Lloyd, orphan, 15 born Liverpool

Elizabeth Youd
Marriage
17 Jan 1820
Parish
Liverpool, St Peter
Spouse
Joseph Lyon, Bricklayer

Witnesses, Hector McDonald, John Darling

???

1841,
Tarvin
HO107, P90, Book32

John Lyon 50, Ind, Born in the County, Yes
Willm Lyon 24 No
Betsy Lyon 20 No
Ann Lyon 9, No
John Lyon 5

Also in Tarvin in 1841:

Joseph Lyon 45 Grocer (generally transcribed as Lyons)
Elizabeth Lyon 45


There's a Youd family on the opposite page (also a Lloyd family).

Wow thank you both so much I had given up hope!!!!

Sarah, born Huxley
Elizabeth born Liverpool
John, born Crewe
Priscilla born Crewe
Joseph Lyon Povall Liverpool

So it looks like the family flitted between the 2 counties. I can't seem to find many Methodist records online on Anc and FMP and am assuming this family were quite strong Methodists due to their father ending up as a minister. The white sheep of the family.

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cg ... d=59743620

I've just noticed the Find A Grave site has been updated and said he became a Deacon in the church.

Hi Barbara. I believe "the genealogist" has lots of independent church records. Might help. I don't have a subscription, but someone must have.

lynne99 wrote:Hi Barbara. I believe "the genealogist" has lots of independent church records. Might help. I don't have a subscription, but someone must have.

Thank you Lynne I don't have a sub anymore either can't afford them all, more's the pity.

I am now working on this family as I believe Joseph and John are brothers thanks to RT and Bertie and have found what I think are their baptisms on C of E records on FMP, it seems to be in later years some parts of the family have changed faith though of course I'm not sure about that, just guessing.

Henry is not my direct ancestor but he is the eldest son of my 3 x g. grandfather and the eldest half brother of my 2 x g.grandfather. I've always had a fascination with him as he led such a varied and interesting life. Starting out as a tailor in Cheshire, warehouseman, clerk, lay preacher and druggist in Liverpool and ending up as a Doctor and Reverend in New York!!

Barbara,

Just scratching an itch which may not lead anywhere but the bin.

The 1841, Tarvin family, John Lyon the father and children born out of county.

The following can be found on either Parish Clerks & Anc.

Parents, John Lyon, Cow keeper, Wife, Ann,

William Lyon, 1818, Cotter St, Toxteth, St Peter
Betsy, 1819.................................................
Daniel, 1820.................................................
John, 1823...................................................
John Henry, 1837, Park St..............................

I can't find in 1841 a John Lyon, wife Ann or any of those children with parents of that name in Liverpool. Daniel, apprentice joiner is living with, William and Mary Bellis, Liverpool. Perhaps couldn't interfere with his apprenticeship and move to Tarvin.
If the first son John died, another was given his name?

Still no baptism for Ann

Might be of no relevance to you, but Stanhope independent Chapel , there is a baptism for
John Henry Povall 1849, father Charles Povall.
I'm sure you have already got these, but there are lots of Lyon (s) in the burials

http://www.toxtethparkcemetery.co.uk/We ... 201869.htm

Bertieone wrote:Barbara,

Just scratching an itch which may not lead anywhere but the bin.

The 1841, Tarvin family, John Lyon the father and children born out of county.

The following can be found on either Parish Clerks & Anc.

Parents, John Lyon, Cow keeper, Wife, Ann,

William Lyon, 1818, Cotter St, Toxteth, St Peter
Betsy, 1819.................................................
Daniel, 1820.................................................
John, 1823...................................................
John Henry, 1837, Park St..............................

I can't find in 1841 a John Lyon, wife Ann or any of those children with parents of that name in Liverpool. Daniel, apprentice joiner is living with, William and Mary Bellis, Liverpool. Perhaps couldn't interfere with his apprenticeship and move to Tarvin.
If the first son John died, another was given his name?

Still no baptism for Ann

So you don't think John and Joseph are brothers then Bertie? All for the sake of a Y or N...dammit you enumerator you!!

I have found a load of them baptised at Tattenhall and interestingly not only does it give the parents names it also gives *their* parents names too, oh if only!! The name is Lion going further back too.

I do think John and Joseph could be brothers, its John's children that were born out of the county.

Are there any baptisms in Cheshire that match those children?

lynne99 wrote:Might be of no relevance to you, but Stanhope independent Chapel , there is a baptism for
John Henry Povall 1849, father Charles Povall.
I'm sure you have already got these, but there are lots of Lyon (s) in the burials

http://www.toxtethparkcemetery.co.uk/We ... 201869.htm

Good one Lynne thanks for that I forget it's not just TP on that site.

Bertieone wrote:I do think John and Joseph could be brothers, its John's children that were born out of the county.

Are there any baptisms in Cheshire that match those children?

I haven't looked Bertie but I'm on it now I'm home from work!! Thanks for your help as always

BarbaraW wrote: I have found a load of them baptised at Tattenhall and interestingly not only does it give the parents names it also gives *their* parents names too, oh if only!! The name is Lion going further back too.

Don't you just love that period in time when they gave a lot more information, don't forget to check burials round that date as I had one that gave another generation too -
25 Jan. 1802 - Luke Lunt - West Derby - son of Richard by his wife Mary, dau of Thomas Brown - died 22 Jan. 1802 - 47 years - Churchyd - Stroke

MaryA wrote:

BarbaraW wrote: I have found a load of them baptised at Tattenhall and interestingly not only does it give the parents names it also gives *their* parents names too, oh if only!! The name is Lion going further back too.

Don't you just love that period in time when they gave a lot more information, don't forget to check burials round that date as I had one that gave another generation too -
25 Jan. 1802 - Luke Lunt - West Derby - son of Richard by his wife Mary, dau of Thomas Brown - died 22 Jan. 1802 - 47 years - Churchyd - Stroke

I know Mary you rub your hands at these little gems

Well Bertie I have done a thorough search on FMP and can find no children baptised in Cheshire with a father John, I didn't even use the parent's names I just went through every record I could for the names you have found in Liverpool.

I didn't think that FMP had many Methodist records but they say the following on their site, though I don't suppose that means they have every single record ever written in Cheshire??

"The Methodist movement grew in Cheshire from the 1740s. Breakaway groups included Primitive Methodists, New Connexion, Independents and Wesleyan Methodists. Records were created by districts, circuits and chapels. There are 36,069 Methodist records in the collection covering 56 chapels, circuits and churches at the following locations:"

Then follows a long list.