Liverpool & South West Lancashire FHS - Forum

Hello I have also posted this on Rootschat so nobody else doubles up I have also checked LANOPC, IGI, FREE BMD, Anc and FMP and can find no trace of this marriage.

Apparently Ellen Price born 1819 in Eastham (parents Richard and Margaret Price) is a bit of a "famous" person as one of the earlier pioneers going to Utah and was converted to Mormonism in Liverpool where she lived with her husband who became an elder of the church. I was alerted to all this by the Millenium File on Ancestry which I'd never heard of before. According to Find A Grave (link from Anc) Ellen and her husband were married at St Thomas, Liverpool on 09 Sep 1837

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cg ... GRid=88496


but I cannot find any trace of this and in fact the PR for St Thomas says there were no marriages from June of that year until 1838 because of repairs to the church. HOWEVER, somebody sent me a link to a 68 page pdf file last night which after reading through it, it says in fact they were married at "St Thomas Cathedral, Toxteth Park" on that date.

I can see an Ellen (born Eastham) in the 1841, 1851 and 1861 censuses with right husband and various children.

There is only one Ellen Price b Eastham daughter of Richard and Margaret Price that I've found. Are there more? Can you find the above marriage?

This is being made doubly hard because there are 2 families of Richard and Margaret Price, similar age in the same area of the Wirral. One family in Bebington have about 10 children, one being Ellen, but I think this Ellen was born in Wales and baptised there. It's very hard to see which children belong to which family as both lived in almost the same place and both fathers are Ag Labs or Labourers on the baptisms.....I have done a printout of all Prices in the area on the PR's with a father Richard and mother Margaret and also the same for the BT's but which child belongs to which family?

Now all my family (so far) seem to be round Neston/Eastham ish areas. On this pdf file mentioned is a letter from Ellen's son after a visit to England talking about visiting family graves and people in Bevinton (Bebington?) and Brombry (Bromborough).....

It's so much harder to work forwards than backwards....... I have a headache and wish I'd never heard of the Millenium File lol.

Can you post a link to the thread on RC so we can see what's happening there. As you say St Thomas Liverpool can be eliminated for the marriage. St Thomas Toxteth can also be eliminated as its foundation was after 1837. Nothing is coming up on Free BMD, Lancs OPC, Liverpool or Lancs images on Ancestry or Family Search. It's a bit of a mystery.


Blue

This is the family in 1851 isn't it?

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QKVX-4C4K


Blue

According to a tree on Anc,

Ellen Price, John Davies, married 9/9/1837, Lake Point, Tooele, Utah, USA.

Yes that's the right family Blue with even more "Mormon type" names in 1861.

Bert, I saw that last night but according to this HUGE pdf file which was put together by "experts" it says the marriage is at St Thomas, Toxteth Park though I don't know where the word Cathedral comes from . And of course many people on Anc have all copied this Millenium File making it even harder to get down to the nitty gritty which is what I was trying to do!!

https://familysearch.org/patron/v2/TH-3 ... tCtxPublic

Page 17 has mention of the marriage, Get in touch with the tree holder and ask where they obtained the Utah marriage from.

I will do that Bertie because they are saying the baptism is the wrong date, but not according to Eastham Parish Register and the Cheshire BT's. I see it was sent for in 1939 on that baptism doc they have on the pdf so maybe it was just copied down wrongly, also maybe they sent to England for a marriage certificate at the same time.

I've now had to go back and revisit this whole tree of mine because I'm now not absolutely sure that I have my Richard Price married to the right woman.

I am now working on Richard Price marrying Margaret Evans (not Roberts). Richard appears consistently in the 1841, 51, 61, 71 censuses and is buried in 1874 in Eastham.

Wife Margaret survives him and is buried in 1883 at Eastham. She always says on the censuses she is born in Hankelow (various spellings) according to GENUKI Cheshire this comes under Audlem.

On the PR's for Audlem there is a baptism for a Margaret Evans daughter of Peter and Elizabeth in 1803. Peter is the name of her second son on the censuses.

There is a marriage in Wybunbury in 1822. The groom is Richard Price of Audlem (??) and Margaret Evans of this Parish.

So I had everything right with the censuses and of course I had Richard right as there is only one Adam Price (father) in Cheshire at the right time except I had the marriage to the wrong Margaret probably because it came up in an Ancestry hint and I went with that without following it through because at that time I had Ellen down as one of mine and the birth a year after the marriage in 1818 seemed to fit.......

Does this seem more feasible than the marriage in Chester in 1818? If so this would seem the Millenium file is wrong and although Ellen's parents *are* Richard and Margaret Price, perhaps they are not the right couple.

What do you think?

**Updated to add.

I can't even blame Ancestry as there was no hint for that marriage I just checked , it was my own mistake upon assuming the large number of Price children baptised in Eastham to Richard, labourer and his wife Margaret were all the same family, finding a birth for Ellen in 1819 (seemingly the eldest before I checked the BT's and found 2 earlier children)and a marriage for 1818 and assuming it all fit neatly like a jigsaw puzzle.

According to the pdf file John and Ellen had a daughter Margaret Davies born 1843 in Liverpool. She is not on the 1851 census with them in Liverpool however she appears in Bebington with her grandmother Margaret Price who is by now a widow (the large family from the 1841 census) Margaret was born in Denbighshire. There is a burial for Richard Price of Lower Bebington in 1844.

Therefore I believe that those using the Millenium File on Ancestry have linked Ellen Price daughter of Richard and Margaret Price up to my 5 x great grandather Adam Price in error. There is no lineage to Adam Price in the pdf file and I haven't pursued the lineage of the Mormon Ellen Price any further because I'm satisfied they are 2 different women.

Well done on taking your own - and others - advice of not accepting another person's tree as gospel and verifying the research for yourself, I know it's hard, but worthwhile.

No Mary I will never do that as some of the trees on there are UNBELIEVABLE!! Sometimes it helps me to type things up as I do on here and it sets the brain cogs whirring into action. It was when I first saw this Millenium File about pioneering Mormons to Utah and I was like "What???!!!"

Children born before their parents, people marrying when they are already dead and women having children in their 60's!!!

I have one ancestor who was married twice with a possible 3rd marriage later in life I am still working on, she had 3 children and lived between 2 counties all her life, namely Eastham and Liverpool as lots of mine did.

Somebody on Anc has her as marrying 6 times and having 16 daughters and 11 sons (could be the other way around) so 27 children in total and she moves all over the country in each census hopping from one county to another, she must have had a huge furniture removals bill.