Liverpool & South West Lancashire FHS - Forum

Hi all, I am compiling my Orrett family tree, and just double checking on my 3rd Great Grandmother.

I have been looking at the free Find My past weekend, and found a couple of entries and images that confuse me slightly. Both are from the Diocese of Chester parish registers of Baptisms c1538-1910, and both are from St. Bennet's church in Netherton (which I presume might be the recently demolished St. Benet's church on Copy Lane/Northern Perimeter Road).

There is a record in 1760 of a Jane Bilsbarrow being born to William and Alice in May, but another entry for Jane Bilsbarrow being born to the same parents (and with one of the same Godparents) in June 1767. Here are the links to the images:http://search.findmypast.co.uk/record/b ... 28%2f01215 and http://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?i ... hts=%22%22

Was it usual to have 2 children with the same name whilst both were alive? I think I have the right Jane, as the 1841 census has her aged 74, and married to John Orrett, and 2 other Orrett family trees have the same details.

The 'other' Jane Bilsbarrow married an Evan Bullin in Formby in 1784, whereas 'my' Alice married John Orrett in 1783.

Many thanks in advance,

John

JohnnyO wrote:Was it usual to have 2 children with the same name whilst both were alive?

I was telling a friend recently of searching family history, and how shocked I was about the number of infant deaths. She said it was usual, before registration, to use the same name after a death. I hadn't heard that - doesn't apply to our lot as far as I know.

In your case, maybe the first Jane died, the second one was given the same name in 1767, she would be aged 74 by 1841, and the 'other' one is a stranger?

Just a thought.

Thanks for the thoughts luxor. I know that a few of my relatives died when young, and other children subsequently born took the same christian name.

In this case thought, both Janes were married, the older one a year before my relative, so the second Jane was born 7 years after the first, who was still living.

Hi and welcome to the forum.

It would be unusual for two children to be named the same except after the death of a first, which as Luxor says is quite a common occurrence.

I believe you should make further investigation instead of just accepting that they are both children of the same couple. It might be that there is another couple with the same name, perhaps cousins even, you should perhaps investigate Wills or any other documents relating to property in the area to check this out.

Thank you for the feedback. Apologies for the delay in replying, but my mum's quite poorly in hospital.

I see what you mean about cousins etc. I've found a document online in one of my bits of research, which shows two Alice Bartons, both apparently born on the same day to different parents, one in Burscough and one in Ormskirk. For some reason I can't post the image.

Not sure which one married William Bilsbarrow to give birth to Jane.

The search continues .

Thanks

John

Instructions to show a photograph in your message http://forum.liverpool-genealogy.org.uk ... =16&t=9817

You need to be mindful that that register is a transcription rather than the original so there could be errors in it.

The old St Bennet's RC is the building on the opposite side of the road from the new one. It looks like a cross between a house and a barn.

I did wonder if the fact that on one of the entries the transcriber has crossed out the first name they wrote meant they actually intended to write something differently.

Have you searched other local RC records to see if there are any other Jane Bilsbarrows in the area?

Nothing to do with your search but I did wonder why FMP had included a RC church within it's C of E records.

Lancashire Archives also have a copy of St Bennet's register including burials 1754 - 1799 which might be worth you looking at. They state the original is at Douai School Woolhampton Berkshire.

Many thanks for your reply, and to Mary for the Photobucket link .
Here is a picture of the transcription:



I will have to have a look at St. Bennet's, as I pass it most days.

I'm doing a bit of research into Jane Bilsbarrow. A few other family trees have the same details, but not sure if anyone has actually researched it, or just used Ancestry's tips to automatically add it to their tree.

I have had a quick look at the Lancashire Archives online, but nothing for Jane Bilsbarrow.

Thanks again for the advice. Ive only been doing this for 6 months, so still a newbie

The church registers held at lancashire Archives are not online on their website. Many of the Church of England registers are on the Ancestry site, but no RC ones.

If your Jane Bilsbarrow was what you would call an "old" Catholic which I imagine she was if christened at St Benetts I think it unlikely she married a non Catholic. At the time of her birth there were still restrictions on Catholics as to what offices etc they could hold.

What evidence do you have that Jane's mother was called Barton or for that matter that they lived in either Ormskirk or Burscough?

Hi Hilary, I thought I had the correct name, but these two entries confuse me:

First name(s) Alice
Last name Barton
Gender Female
Birth year -
Birth place -
Baptism year 1736
Baptism date 11 Apr 1736
Residence Ormskirk, Lancashire, England
Place Ormskirk
County Lancashire
Country England
Father's first name(s) John
Father's last name Barton
Mother's first name(s) Margaret
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
First name(s) Alice
Last name Barton
Gender Female
Birth year -
Birth place -
Baptism year 1736
Baptism date 11 Apr 1736
Residence Ormskirk, Lancashire, England
Place Ormskirk
County Lancashire
Country England
Father's first name(s) William
Father's last name Barton
Mother's first name(s) Elizabeth
Mother's last name -

Same name, Alice Barton, same date of birth, same place but different parents. Something lost in transcription maybe?

I'm fairly certain that Jane Bilsbarrow married John Orrett on 13/07/1763, as that seems to be documented on several sites.

The only entry on findmypast for William Billsbarrow marrying an Alice Barton is this:
First name(s) Alice
Last name Barton
Name note -
Marriage year 1760
Marriage date 1760
Marriage place Halsall, Bts, Lancashire, England
Father's first name(s) -
Father's last name -
Mother's first name(s) -
Mother's last name -
Spouse's first name(s) William
Spouse's last name Bilsbarrow
Spouse's father's first name(s) -
Spouse's father's last name -
Spouse's mother's first name(s) -
Spouse's mother's last name -
Residence Halsall, Lancashire, England
Place Halsall
County Lancashire
Country England
Record set England Marriages 1538-1973
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Marriages & divorces
Collections from Great Britain

Regards,

John

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Ah, thanks for pointing that out Mary - I didn't even think of that

But how do you know Jane's mother was called Alice Barton?

If Jane was a RC I think you should be looking for RC parents.

JohnnyO wrote: I'm fairly certain that Jane Bilsbarrow married John Orrett on 13/07/1763, as that seems to be documented on several sites.

I'd be curious to know which sites? are these perhaps user submitted entries in online trees? perhaps one person has copied what somebody else has found and so on. It might well be true but I would ask them what evidence they have of this and deciding for myself whether or not to accept it.

JohnnyO wrote: The only entry on findmypast for William Billsbarrow marrying an Alice Barton is this:

So have you searched anywhere else except Findmypast? Did you know that Crosby Library and also Liverpool or Lancashire Record Office have a huge amount of records that haven't reached the internet.

Thanks for the replies both.

I'm checking the facts regarding Jane's mother. I cant remember where I got that from.

Mary, thanks for the tips. I have been to Crosby and Liverpool libraries for research, although only on more recent burials of my grandparents as to which cemeteries and plot numbers etc., and pleased that I have found a few. I find Liverpool library a fantastic place, and am intending to pop along one of these Tuesdays. I haven't been to Preston yet, but will get there at some stage.

I don't just use Findmypast, in fact only recently just started using it. I use a large number of sites, some subscription, including Ancestry, FreeBMD, Familysearch, Genes Reunited, Britishgeneology, Irishgeneology, GRONI, PRONI, Irish National Archives, and loads more, as well as this site, which is great .

I don't rely on other trees in Ancestry to copy info, as there are too many variables, and I think it is too easy to simply copy and paste and as you say, it may not be correct. I prefer to cross reference several times before I add it to my tree.

I am also relying on older relatives for info on family members. It is also fascinating that the names I have called my relatives over the years are not what they were born with, so after initially entering them in my tree, I could find no records until someone pointed out the problem. My wife's uncle Brian was actually born as Otteran Carthage Brian Ross. No wonder he was known as Brian all of his life!

As mentioned previously, I have only been doing this for 6 months, but really enjoying it, and more importantly, the community spirit in helping.

Thanks again for the help,

John

I wish you lots of luck with your research and am glad that you have made the acquaintance of the libraries, which I believe may be very important in this particular search as at the date you have got to there are obviously fewer records online and far more that haven't been published but may be on microfilm.

I would suggest that perhaps maps and wills might be a couple of lines to investigate.

There are 2 separate marriages for Jane Bilsbarrows listed at Sefton church one in 1783 to John Orritt and one in 1784 to Evan Bullin. You will need to sort out which one is which baptism.