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Henry and Ellen Manchester 1861 Census

Posted: 15 Aug 2015 18:31
by lynne99
Hi, I have looked for this family for a long time with no luck. I can find them in 1841 at 24, Paul Place, Paul St Liverpool
Piece: 557
Book/Folio: 14/17
Page: 26
They are
Manchester Henry 40 - Wheelwright J Y
Manchester Ellen 36 - Y
Manchester Edward 18 - Y
Manchester Sarah 15 - Y
Manchester Mary 13 - Y
Manchester Barbara 7 - Y (Niece)
Manchester Alice 6 - Y
Manchester William 3 - Y
In 1851 they had moved to Gore St North, Liverpool, as follows:-
Thomas Manchester 60 (Henry) (Ages both 10 years out) Wrong name
Ellen Manchester 55
Fanny Manchester 12
Alice Manchester 10
William Manchester 9
James Manchester 8
Walter Manchester 4 His age is correct, others are slightly out.
Their 11th child John Henry Manchester was born in 1851 and his baptism gives the address as Gore St. So it looks like the above is correct even with the wrong ages and Father's name!!!

Edward , Henry and John had died before 1861, but I know Walter and John Henry were definitely alive and quite young. The parents died after this 1861 census. Henry died in 1869 at 30 Kirkdale Rd, where his widow, Ellen, was in 1871 census with her children, Alice, 35, James, 29, and Henry 19. She has been transcribed as Hellen aged 67, a green grocer. On the 1871 census her birth is given as Hawten Lancashire (RG10/3824/~F67 CD6 R10_3824), but the 1851 census gave Leeds, Yorkshire. I my self think it may be Aughton and misheard. Ellen's maiden name was Draper and born c 1804. I have a possible baptism at Douglas chapel Eccleston, which is at Parbold, but there appear to be 2 copies of this baptism in different years :(
Please could you help me find them in 1861 and Ellen's baptism or birth. Thanks Lynne. I have both Anx and FMP if you point me in the right direction. I also have both death certs. Thanks in anticipation Lynne

Re: Henry and Ellen Manchester 1861 Census

Posted: 16 Aug 2015 10:20
by Bertieone
I can only think this family has been missed off the 1861 completely, no luck whatsoever. :(
apparently the 1861 is the worst for missing returns.

Re: Henry and Ellen Manchester 1861 Census

Posted: 16 Aug 2015 10:50
by lynne99
Thanks Bert, I thought it might be me being thick :oops:

Re: Henry and Ellen Manchester 1861 Census

Posted: 16 Aug 2015 11:03
by retiringtype
They were at 30 Kirkdale Road in 1867 ( Henry Manchester, grocer & provision dealer)

Re: Henry and Ellen Manchester 1861 Census

Posted: 16 Aug 2015 11:10
by retiringtype
Re missing pages in Scotland ward, 1861 http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.u ... ge&_ro=any

Re: Henry and Ellen Manchester 1861 Census

Posted: 16 Aug 2015 11:46
by lynne99
Hi and great thanks to Bert and retiring type.
I followed the link to NA but I never get on with their site. It said they were available at ancestry, but if they are missing how can they be??
Is it possible to search for a road. I just think their name might be mis-transcribed.
Thanks again Lynne

Re: Henry and Ellen Manchester 1861 Census

Posted: 16 Aug 2015 11:58
by retiringtype
I've checked 15 Gore Street North (residence in 1853) and 30 Kirkdale Rd but they are not at either address in 1861

Re: Henry and Ellen Manchester 1861 Census

Posted: 16 Aug 2015 11:59
by Bertieone
Hi Lynne,

I've been trying to find Horatio St, its on William's marriage cert, 1864, no luck up to now finding it. Perhaps better luck on FMP. 1861.

Re: Henry and Ellen Manchester 1861 Census

Posted: 16 Aug 2015 12:17
by retiringtype
Horatio St starts at RG9/2650 folio 169 page 1

Re: Henry and Ellen Manchester 1861 Census

Posted: 16 Aug 2015 12:27
by Bertieone
Thanks, RT,

Nothing I could see :(

Re: Henry and Ellen Manchester 1861 Census

Posted: 16 Aug 2015 12:28
by retiringtype
Me neither!

Re: Henry and Ellen Manchester 1861 Census

Posted: 16 Aug 2015 14:05
by Daisycakes
Ellen Draper baptised 9th September 1804 Horton in the Ribble Valley Lancs father Thomas Draper FMP ....as Ellen puts Hawton ? On the 1871 census as her birthplace might this baptism be her...Long shot but may be worth a look .

Ann :)

Re: Henry and Ellen Manchester 1861 Census

Posted: 16 Aug 2015 14:37
by retiringtype
The Horton baptism looks promising. Married in Preston - just a boat journey away.

Re: Henry and Ellen Manchester 1861 Census

Posted: 16 Aug 2015 15:02
by Daisycakes
I did think with the marriage in Preston may we have a match ?it isn't that far away

Ann :)

Re: Henry and Ellen Manchester 1861 Census

Posted: 16 Aug 2015 15:31
by Daisycakes
Horton in Ribblesdale is a village in the Yorkshire Dales Wikipedia ..so it would seem Ellen did know where she came from as of the 1871 census ....the plot thickens

Ann :)

Still no luck with the 1861 I think you may be right Bert ...from my own experience 1861 is a bit of a bug bear .

Re: Henry and Ellen Manchester 1861 Census

Posted: 16 Aug 2015 17:13
by MaryA
Sorry, I looked this morning before I went out, and also by address search, with no luck, didn't want to think that nobody would find them so I hoped that during the day somebody might have succeeded :(.

Re: Henry and Ellen Manchester 1861 Census

Posted: 16 Aug 2015 18:25
by lynne99
I thought I had posted this but it must have got lost. If it appears twice, I am sorry.
They had 11 children that I know of, 7 boys and 4 girls. None of them were called Thomas .. so Ellen's father being Thomas looks unlikely unless I have missed one out. All of them were born Liverpool or Ormskirk.
Henry's brother John was living in Preston in 1841 census and may have been there before. Perhaps they went together.
There is an Ellen Draper bapt Eccleston in 1804 with a father William and mother Mary . They did have a child called William and a daughter mary. But she did say she was born in Leeds in 1851 census. In 1871 she says she was born in Hawton Lancashire oh dear :? :?

Re: Henry and Ellen Manchester 1861 Census

Posted: 17 Aug 2015 12:38
by lynne99
I have looked at Anx and FMP for the christening in Horton... To no avail :(
Please can you give me some pointers :)
Thanks Lynne

Re: Henry and Ellen Manchester 1861 Census

Posted: 17 Aug 2015 12:54
by retiringtype
is it this one - in Ribchester per the LDS site https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:J9M2-6L4 ?

Re: Henry and Ellen Manchester 1861 Census

Posted: 17 Aug 2015 13:00
by retiringtype
LAN-OPC has both the Eccleston and Ribchester baptisms.

The one in Eccleston resided in Ormskirk. For the one in Ribchester the abode is transcribed as Alston. No mention of Horton

Baptism: 3 Jun 1804 Douglas Chapel, Eccleston, Lancashire, England
Ellen Draper - daughter of William Draper & Mary
Abode: Ormskirk
Notes: Contained in Eccleston register
Register: Baptisms 1782 - 1812, Page 200, Entry 4
Source: LDS Film 1526114



Baptism: 9 Sep 1804 St Wilfrid, Ribchester, Lancashire, England
Ellen Draper - Dau. of Thomas Draper
Abode: Alston
Register: Baptisms 1773 - 1812, Page 81, Entry 27
Source: LDS Film 94019