Liverpool & South West Lancashire FHS - Forum

Greetings from New Zealand,
Joseph Rutter Ashe (1779-1861) is my direct ancestor and I am visiting Liverpool in August to see his haunts during the three days at our disposal. He had many addresses apart from Liverpool and Chester gaols - 83 Christian St, 2 Phythian St, 7 Westmoreland Place, Willow bank, Gill St, Beach St and Stanhope St but during his school years he lived at Greenbank House. Occupation Draper and Landing Waiter. One answered question I have is where was he buried? I know it was Walton on the Hill but there are a number of cemeteries there I think. Any advise or assistance please.
Kind regards, Trevor Ashe

Hi

Welcome to the forum. The burial took place at St Mary's C of E Church Walton (Walton on the Hill Parish Church). This church was bombed during WW2 and the graveyard is in poor condition. See this link for more information about the church:-

http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/Liverpool/Walton/index.html


Bishop's Transcript of burial record:-




Blue

Hi and welcome to the forum.

There is an index to the burials at St Mary's in the archives at the Liverpool Record Office, these do have vague hand-drawn maps to attempt to identify the locations. To view these you would need to book giving 24 hours notice.

Because of prevention of vandalism the churchyard gates tend to be locked except for service times, so if you were to visit a Sunday might be best.

Thanks for the advice. Joseph Rutter Ashe's father was Captain John Ash,(1741-1807) a privateer who sailed from Liverpool trading in coffee and timber or capturing enemy vessels. Some of the ships he commanded to the West Indies were the Terrible, Telemachus and Heart of Oak c 1778-1781. As far as I know the Liverpool Maritime Museum does not have much on Privateers so where could I look for more on the captain. I am attempting to go one generation further back from him with some degree of certainty. What I have is very sketchy but it seems he was born and died in London.

Hi Trevor,
Are you aware of this site? http://www.ashefamily.info/ashefamily/3662.htm
Or is it your's?

There are various trees on Ancestry taking this family line further back it may be best to contact those tree owners and share research so that you all have this tree as accurate as possible.


Blue

So can you tell me if any of the houses at the addresses mentioned still standing. In which case I will certainly be paying them a visit. I am following up the suggestions already received, thanks.

Can you give us the full addresses and the year he was there? A lot of the older housing in Liverpool was demolished even the houses of some of the better off in the city and the countryside around Liverpool were lost as the city expanded.


Blue

OK he was at 2 Phythian St in 1814, 7 Westmoreland Place in 1816, Walton-breck in 1821 and 83 Christian St 1824-7. And would there be a website for Chester or Liverpool Jails around these times?

I don't think any of these houses still exist. If you have a look at them on Google Street View, you'll see that much more modern housing stands on their sites.

There were two prisons in Liverpool around the dates you mention, the older one being Liverpool Borough Gaol on Great Howard Street sometimes called the French Prison and the later one being Kirkdale Gaol. Do you know which gaol he was in? You could contact Liverpool Record Office and ask about what records they have and maybe pay them for copies of any records if they have what you're looking for:-

https://liverpool.gov.uk/libraries/arch ... ontact-us/

http://ourscouseforum.myfreeforum.org/a ... t_831.html

http://www.old-merseytimes.co.uk/kirkdalegaol.html

2 Phythian St in 1814 = Phythian Street, Kensington, Liverpool - newer housing
7 Westmoreland Place in 1816, = Westmoreland Place (off Scotland Road) Liverpool - newer housing
Walton-breck in 1821 = Walton Breck Road and Willow Bank in Anfield, Liverpool - newer housing
83 Christian St 1824-7 = Christian Street Liverpool near Liverpool Central Library - newer housing
Gill St = Gill Street, Brownlow Hill, Liverpool - newer housing
Beech St = Beech Street, Fairfield, Liverpool 7 - lots of older properties still exist
Stanhope St = Stanhope Street, Toxteth, Liverpool - mostly non residential
Greenbank House = http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenbank_House


Blue

For old photographs of the streets, Facebook is a good source. Apart from our own group, some of those who post old pictures might be The Four Squares, Inacityliving, and put Liverpool into the search box and choose to join a few that look promising.

Joseph's place of abode on the burial is Aughton. His death is registered in Ormskirk which was the registration district for Aughton. Do you have his death certificate and place of death? The reason I ask is I will be in Aughton on Tuesday and if the house still exists could take a photo for you.

In 1841 Ashe was held at Chester Castle Gaol. If you google this you will find a number of pictures and photos.

No I don't have any death certificate. My website for those interested in having a peek is www.brashe56.tribalpages.com

Seems I have some re-thinking to do. I've been looking over the Rathbone Papers again and the company name of Ashe, Holland and Co had been staring at me for years. This takes me back one generation form Joseph Rutter Ashe. One owner of that company was one John Ashe, probably not the privateer as I thought. I think I now need to investigate the Rathbone Papers closer while in Liverpool. And yes I do have Joseph Rutter death certificate.

We'll be interested to hear what you find when perusing those records, good luck.

This is indeed a developing story. Sorry if the last post was hard to understand. I was a little excited. But since then I now know the John Ashe in question was John Stewart Ashe, brother of my Joseph Rutter Ashe. John was in correspondence with William Rathbone IV in 1805 from Trieste, Italy on business matters. I now need to follow up on the Italian connection, among other things but having a Privateer in the family is now, again a strong possibility.

Good stuff, it's more exciting when there is somebody a little out of the ordinary in the family.

trevor wrote:Thanks for the advice. Joseph Rutter Ashe's father was Captain John Ash,(1741-1807) a privateer who sailed from Liverpool trading in coffee and timber or capturing enemy vessels. Some of the ships he commanded to the West Indies were the Terrible, Telemachus and Heart of Oak c 1778-1781. As far as I know the Liverpool Maritime Museum does not have much on Privateers so where could I look for more on the captain. I am attempting to go one generation further back from him with some degree of certainty. What I have is very sketchy but it seems he was born and died in London.

Trevor, I have lately become interested in Captain Ashe (Ash as it was reported in some newspapers.) and his ship or the privateer he commanded, Telemachus, 1779/1780. A capture was made buy it and partner ship, Ulysses in the Atlantic Nov., 1779, of the Spanish frigate Soledad (with many spellings) which was sent into west Cork under the command of Gill (captain?). I would like to know if you are aware of Captain Ashe's and the privateer's status - was it a true privateer or was it a hired ship? Do you know what became of Captain Ashe after the capture and if the prize was adjudicated on? R.S.