Liverpool & South West Lancashire FHS - Forum

I,am tring to find my grandmother . I have hard for the past 2 years but had no luck. I have one but was

born out of wedlock. I found her in 1911 census with her mother Margaret Creighton but in the 1901 census she was Margaret codling. Her mother was married to Alfred codling in1898 but Margaret was born
in 1893.
your henry

Hi and welcome to the forum. Can you please confirm the following

1901 49 Robsart Street, Everton - RG13; Piece: 3473; Folio: 112; Page: 32
Charles Creighton Head M 24 Marine Fireman Cumberland, Workington
Margaret Wife M 25 Lancashire Bootle
Margaret Codling daur 8 " Liverpool
Elizabeth Codling daur 6 " "

13 May 1900 St Peter's Everton
Charles Creighton, 23 Bachelor Seaman 12 Arkwright Street
Father Charles Creighton (deceased), Wheelwright - married
Margaret Elizabeth Codling 23 Widow 12 Arkwright Street
Father Henry Latham (Deceased) Boatman
Witnesses were Henry Forsyth and Jane Lange

Margaret E Latham married Alfred Codling Q4 1898 at Our Lady & St. Nicholas & St. Anne, Liverpool

Do you have a copy of this earlier marriage to confirm that she was a spinster then?

Who did your Margaret marry and when? can you post the full details from that certificate.

As MaryA says, you need to see the 1898 marriage certificate to confirm whether Margaret was a spinster or not. If she was a spinster then her daughter Margaret would have been illegitimate and surnamed Latham.

I assume you are using the daughter's YoB based on 1893 being in the transcription of the 1911 census?
Margaret Creighton Head Widow 35 1876 Charwoman - Kirkdale
Margaret Latham Dtr U/m 18 1893 Laundress - Liverpool
Elizabeth Latham Dtr U/m 16 1895 Laundress - Liverpool
Mary Creighton Dtr 2 1909 - Liverpool

Since the YoB is calculated from the age written on the household form and the latter can be out by a year or so, I would not depend on 1893 as being correct. Assuming the daughter was registered as Latham, there are only 3 Latham births between 1890 and 1895..
Births Jun 1890: Latham, Margaret Rose - W. Derby 8b 575
Births Mar 1891: Latham, Margaret Emma - Toxteth Park 8b 188
Births Dec 1891: Latham, Margaret - W.Derby 8b 455

Since the census indicates that Margaret's sister Elizabeth was also illegitimate FreeBMD gave the following for 1892 to 1897...
Births Mar 1894: Latham, Elizabeth - W. Derby 8b 239
Births Sep 1894: Latham, Elizabeth Ann - W. Derby 8b 437
Births Dec 1894: Latham, Elizabeth - W. Derby 8b 357

Edited to correct transcribed surname error in census.

Do you know when Margaret Latham/Codling/Creighton married and who her spouse was? Possibly he was Kelly, Booth, Gilbertson or Dallas?

Hi in the 1911 census Margaret is 35 widowed Creighton with little daughter Mary 2.
Her two other daughters are listed as Latham, both laundresses.
76 Prince Edwin St

Tina wrote:Hi in the 1911 census Margaret is 35 widowed Creighton with little daughter Mary 2.
Her two other daughters are listed as Latham, both laundresses.
76 Prince Edwin St

Hi Tina,
Thanks for that. Bad me! I broke the golden rule about checking original sources where possible!
I had found them thus named in 1910+1...
Margaret Creighton Dtr U/m 18 1893 Laundress - Liverpool
Elizabeth Creighton Dtr U/m 16 1895 Laundress - Liverpool

Major error in the transcription by you-know-who [not Anc]. Correction submitted.

The plot thickens....
The 'missing' Margaret was born Margaret Elizabeth Latham, father Henry Latham.
Births Jun 1876: LATHAM, Margaret Elizabeth - W.Derby 8b 458

That birth matches the 1881 census:
RG11 Piece 3684 Folio 143 Page 44
Address: 29 Lower Mersey View, Kirkdale, West Derby, Lancashire
Henry Latham Head 46 1835 Porter Dock (Water Carriers) - Liverpool
Elizabeth Latham Wife 43 1838 - Liverpool
Margaret Latham Dtr 5 1876 Scholar Bootle
Esther Latham Dtr 2 1879 - Bootle
Elizabeth Cottrall Niece 10 1871 Scholar Liverpool

This points to Margaret being between 15 and 17 when her daughter Margaret was born.

On http://www.liverpoolhistoryprojects.co.uk/index.htm found a baptism which indicates the Birth Dec 1891: Latham, Margaret - W.Derby 8b 455 is the child of Henry and Margaret Latham.
ST JAMES - bn 1891 - bpt 1891 - MARGARET LATHAM - father HENRY - mother MARGARET ALTY.
The parents' marriage Jun qtr 1887: Latham, Henry and ALTY, Margaret - W. Derby 8b 749.

And there's this baptism:
ST JAMES - bn 1894 bpt 1894 - ELIZABETH ANN LATHAM - father HENRY - mother MARGARET ALTY.
It fits with this birth: Births Sep 1894: Latham, Elizabeth Ann - W. Derby 8b 437 so both this and the previous one can be ruled out of the search.

dickiesam wrote:Births Mar 1891: Latham, Margaret Emma - Toxteth Park 8b 188

Margaret Emma I suspect is Margaret Emily baptised St Thomas, Toxteth to George & Sarah Belle Lathom so can be discounted.

Hi Margaret Latham married to Henry Booth in 1913 8 June at ST Ambros in everton. My mother and father and brother move in with mrs Creighton in 1945/6/7 my brother thinks my mum called mrs Creighton nan sew I think that Margaret latham 1893 is my gran. The stepsister Mary Creighton is my great ant Mary taylor
henry

henry wrote:Hi Margaret Latham married to Henry Booth in 1913 8 June at ST Ambros in everton. My mother and father and brother move in with mrs Creighton in 1945/6/7 my brother thinks my mum called mrs Creighton nan sew I think that Margaret latham 1893 is my gran. The stepsister Mary Creighton is my great ant Mary taylor
henry

Hi Henry,
Thanks for the update. As I posted earlier there isn't a Margaret Latham birth registered in 1893, so unless the birth wasn't registered [a remote possibility] and as we appear to have eliminated others, it is more likely to be this one:
Births Jun 1890: Latham, Margaret Rose - W. Derby 8b 575

You could apply to the GRO http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/ for a birth cert for a Margaret Latham bn 1891 but do not give the other references, district, volume and page. Just tick the NO box where the question about references is asked and another page will open allowing you to enter the name of the mother Margaret Latham. The GRO will search 1 year either side of 1891 and if they can't find a match they will refund the £9.25 fee in full.

Regarding the marriage of Margaret Latham to Henry Booth on June 8th 1913, if you have the marriage cert who did Margaret name as her father?

Possible, Margaret's sister Elizabeth's marriage,

Hi Bert
I think that will be Margaret sister. On the marriage certified Margaret has her father is a sailor and Elizabeth has him deceased but I think Margaret was toad he was a sailor.
henry

MaryA wrote: Margaret E Latham married Alfred Codling Q4 1898 at Our Lady & St. Nicholas & St. Anne, Liverpool

Do you have a copy of this earlier marriage to confirm that she was a spinster then?

We look forward to seeing the details from this marriage when you have it.

henry wrote:Hi Bert
I think that will be Margaret sister. On the marriage certified Margaret has her father is a sailor and Elizabeth has him deceased but I think Margaret was toad he was a sailor.
henry

It is very unusual to find a father's name missing from a marriage cert. I have several examples where either the bride or groom were definitely illegitimate [proven from their birth certs] but a fictitious name and occupation with usually 'Deceased' had been entered in the 'Father' column understandably to save embarrassment to the party concerned.

Hi
Has for Margaret e Latham married Alfred Codling. Margaret is down has a spinster

Henry