Alice Mitchell b 1894 Prescot.

[lynne99]

Long story, I'll try to abbreviate it.
My grandfather b 1881 Widnes. They family had moved from Liverpool presumably for work, as all the others (older than John) were b Liverpool. He had a sister Esther Ellen Mitchell b 18 May 1871 Liverpool. It is this sister that I am looking for. I have her baptism St peters and all census to 1911. She married in 1891 to Edward Clark and was with him and his father , Lawrence, In Crosby in 1891. After that she appears to have had 2 children Alice Mitchell b 1894 Widnes and Thomas Greenwood Mitchell b 1899 Blackburn. Her husband , Edward Clark , must have died as she is a widow in 1901. I cannot find his death or anything that tells me she was the mother, or who the father was.
Any help please !

[MaryA]

Please don't abbreviate

It would help if you could post the details of at least one of the census entries that you have her and the children on, including references.

[Karen]

Baptism: St. Mary the Virgin, Blackburn

Baptised: September 3rd 1899
Born: July 30th
Thomas Greenwood Mitchell
Parents - Esther Mitchell (States in margin - illegitimate)
27 Do..... st, R..... Road

[MaryA]

For the crew, beginning 1891 RG12; Piece: 2983; Folio: 119; Page: 50
53 York Road, Great Crosby - all born Great Crosby
Edward Clark Head M 22 Laborer
Esther S Wife M 19
Lawrence Father Widr 52 Laborer

I haven't identified the birth of Alice Mitchell for certain in 1894 but I was mistakenly assuming that the boy was Thomas Greenwood Mitchen Clark but he isn't

Births Sep 1899
Mitchell Thomas Greenwood Blackburn 8e 390

Do you have this birth certificate? if not I would urge you to as it would appear that Esther and Edward may not have been married.

[MaryA]

OK posts crossed, so presumably the birth certificate is going to confirm what the baptism states.

I believe the parents were not married, if she later claimed to be a widow it may have been "for shames sake" as they used to say. Edward may not have died, they may just have separated.

The baptism address is possibly "Double Street, but definitely Revidge Road.

[Karen]

1901 Census

Piece: 3908; Folio: 183; Page: 12

[Karen]

Lancs BMD had the following marriage for 1891:

MITCHELL Esther E & CLARK Edward, West Derby Register Office or Registrar Attended.

[MaryA]

Thanks Karen, the idiot transcribers have Esther as Ether.

[MaryA]

So if there was a legitimate marriage then the father may well be some other man, alternatively the marriage may have been bigamous and so she couldn't register the children with the name Clark.

Is the surname Greenwood anywhere in Esther's line? if not she may have given the child the surname of the father as a middle name, it could be the only clue.

[lynne99]

Sorry
1901 census Westgate Blackburn.

Piece:3908
Folio:183
Page Number:12
Household schedule number:80
Household Members:
Ether E Mitchell 29
Alice Mitchell 7
Thomas G Mitchell 1
Ann Brandwood 43
E(s)ther was a widow and Launderess, b Liverpool. Alice b Widnes, Thomas b Blackburn.
Her husband was on 1891 census, with Esther and his father , Lawrence,. Address 53 York Rd Crosby.
I do not know when her husband died or if the children were his or not. Their surname is their mothers maiden name.
Thanks Lynne

[lynne99]

Greenwood does not appear in Esther's family, no Thomas either. So like you I think it may be the father's name. Any ideas on Edward Clark(e)'s death. May have had a first name. I have not got the birth certificate because of cost. Thanks for your help.
Edit. Just looked on a modern map and Revidge Road still exists.

[MaryA]

Tracing him back to the 1871 census, the birth of 1869 is very consistent, as is the surname Clark without an e, so assuming that he remained in Lancashire at least there is a possible death

Edward Clark abt 1869 Jan-Feb-Mar 1903 Liverpool Lancashire 8b 116
This man has a RC burial in Ford Cemetery, his address was 56 Soho Street and is buried in Grave No. N534 22 Feb 1903.

His father Lawrence apparently died in Liverpool Workhouse in and buried on 8 April 1896 and is also (if I have the correct man) buried in Ford, in grave No. N219.

So there is the coincidence of religion between these two entries.

There is a possible entry for his mother, Mary Ann Clark buried in Grave No. 1780 (which will definitely be a general grave) on 21 March 1886, no age given (Coroner's Order).

You could cross reference the first two graves to see who else is in them and perhaps this might answer your question, this would have to be done at the Liverpool Record Office.

Of course this could all be supposition and have no foundation at all.

[dickiesam]

For the crew:
1910+1:
Address: 26 Lance Street Everton Liverpool.
Esther Clarke Head Widow 40 1871 - Shirt Ironer - Liverpool
Thomas Mitchell Son 12 1899 at school - Blackburn
[states married 20 yrs; 9 children bn, only 4 still living]

[MaryA]

Using the same criteria - birth 1869 and death in Lancashire, there appear to be only two more after that original one.

Edward Clark abt 1869 Dec 1944 St Helens Lancashire 8b 714
Edward Clark abt 1869 Mar 1953 Manchester Lancashire 10e 641

[lynne99]

Me again. Just found this marriage .

Liverpool, England, Marriages and Banns, 1813-1921▼
Name Thomas Metchell
[Thomas Mitchell]
Spouse: Annie Postlethwaite
Father: Edward Metchell
Birth: abt 1898
Marriage: 13 Sep 1919 - Everton, St Saviour, Lancashire
Father given as Edward Mitchell deceased. Don't recognise witnesses.
Have found his death in 1988 - My mum's cousin and I don't think she knew him.

[MaryA]

I suspect he knew his mother's husband was Edward, and he may have tagged it onto the Mitchell rather than leaving a blank space.

[lynne99]

Thanks Mary and Dickie Sam. Gone back to Clark(e). How was I meant to keep track.
How can I find out about the other 7 children.. Not the sort of thing you could get mixed up with

[lynne99]

Well confused now
searched Lancs OPC and found these 6 baptisms,
http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/Search/indexp.html
The father is Greenwood Mitchell
Wonder if I am now up the wrong tree. , but I can't see where the error is.
HELP
a Greenwood Mitchell married Esther Mary Smith in 1892 Manchester. If you search Lancs OPC green wood Mitchell is a common name in Yorkshire. So perhaps Thomas' father had a first name greenwood??

[MaryA]

Your link takes us to the index, what is the name of Greenwood Mitchell's children's mother?

There are two marriages to this man, or perhaps somebody else of his name, in Lancashire.
1884
MITCHELL Greenwood LORD Elizabeth Alice Burnley Register Office or Registrar Attended Preston RM/59/83

1892
MITCHELL Greenwood SMITH Esther M Ancoats, St. Andrew Archives+, Manchester Central Library 16/6/264

He still could be the father ....... But as he is with wife and a few children living in Audenshaw in 1901, I don't think it would be legitimately.

[lynne99]

His wife was Esther May,,, the 2nd marriage you mention, in Audenshaw. map does not show Audenshaw as near to Blackburn. What do you think?
And what about Alice?. I can't find any trace of her birth Widnes 1894.