Liverpool & South West Lancashire FHS - Forum

Hi
Could anyone give me any advice on what to try next. I have an 1841 census of a Brown family living in Harrington St, Lower Stationers Court, Toxteth Park. Ref: HO 107/588/23.
John Brown Born 1811 Ireland
Mary Brown born 1803 Ireland
Samuel Brown born 1835 Liverpool
Jane Brown born 1837 Liverpool
Edward Brown born 1839 Liverpool
I can't find Samuel and its before 1837 so i can't send for his certificate. I sent for Janes and they returned my money. I then phoned and i was convinced Edward was Vol 20 Page 395 in the first quarter. The woman was very helpful and she let me give her the info 1839 and the first quarter but said although they search a year either side they only do that till they reach six entries and then they return your money. With a name like Brown there could well be more than six in 3 years so i have had no luck so far. All i was saying was mother Mary and father John and Marys maiden name. I know there may have been no maiden name on it but now i do not know if they never sent it because of a lack of a maiden name or the parents names weren't right. Tempted to buy it just to see. Any idea what i could do next.
Thanks
Lin

Hi Lin,
Oddly, there are only 2 such births registered in Liverpool between Sept qtr 1837 when civil registration started and Dec qtr of 1840....
Births Mar 1839: BROWN, Edward - Liverpool 20 395
Births Dec 1840: Brown, Edward - Liverpool 20 335

Since the census has him as 2 years old, the parents would be unlikely to put 2 years if he had been born the previous Dec qtr. So the probable birth is the 1839 one. I would apply for that cert but stipulate the parents' names.

Thanks Dickiesam. I did try to order this but i stipulated the maiden name as well. I know there is another Edward Brown born 1839 as on the 1861 census i have Daniel Brown 1812 Dock Labourer.
Maria Brown wife 1805 Wales
Edward Brown 1839 Dock Labourer
Maria Brown 1848 . They were all born Liverpool except the wife who was born in Wales. This is not the family i'm looking for. I know mine were really good catholics and baptised the children as soon as they could usually 2 days old. I will send for that birth certificate but i think to put the parents names i have to say i don't know the volume and page so again i'm not sure wether they get to the right one.
Thanks again I'll let you know how i get on.
Lin

Hi Dickiesam Just got an email from GRO stating that they could not find the Birth of Edward Brown born 1839. They are refunding my money. Samuel the other child was born 1835 so to soon for a birth certificate and Jane brown born 1837 would only be there if after September. I think i'll try and order Jane's nothing to lose as they refund if they don't find it.
Thanks for your help. Let you know what this one brings.
Lin

Sorry to hear it was wrong, we'll look forward to perhaps a better result.

Disappointing!
If the GRO can't get a match it is a puzzle. Remember the 1841 simply indicates Lancashire as the county of birth. If a later census says Liverpool that may be a simplification if the birth was actually slightly beyond the boundary of the city itself such as Huyton which would come under Prescot.

Do you have confirmation of the mother's maiden name?

There's only one Jane Brown birth registered up to Dec qtr 1838...
Births Jun 1838: BROWN, Jane - Liverpool 20 297
For that one you will have to state parents etc.

You mentioned the family were "good Catholics". What church were the children baptised in?

I am trying to establish if this is the family i am searching for. I have found the baptisms for 5 children from 1822 to 1833 only 2 survived. There is no trace of the mother or father on the 1841 census. I've looked for their deaths and have had no luck there. There is quite a few on Family Search right name but no age as it is before 1837 and could cost me quite a bit to buy them all. I was looking for this when i came across a Mary Ingram widow who married a John Brown in October 1836/1837 i think ( haven't got it to hand right now). He is a mariner or sailor. On one of her previous baptisms (from first marriage) John Brown was the godfather. Also when who i suspect was her father died it was reported by a Mary Brown. Long shot but she was only about 34 in 1837 so could of had more children. On the 1841 census there is a John Brown Sailor Wife Mary and the 3 children. I am trying to get her maiden name off 1 of them to prove it is her. There is no maiden name on the marriage only Ingram Widow and that was her married name. Both surviving children (from first marriage) married in Liverpool so i don't think they moved away.
Thanks
Lin

Re:

Births Mar 1839: BROWN, Edward - Liverpool 20 395

If this is the cert you applied for what precise search parameters did you stipulate in the application?

If you had stipulated John Brown and Mary Brown nee Ingram and the year of 1893 with the March qtr the GRO would have done a search on that quarter. Since Mary appears to have been a widow when she married the entry in the mother's surname column would probably read 'Brown, formerly Ingram, nee ???', or simply her birth maiden name which you don't yet know.

Hi Dickiesam I want the maiden name to be Torpenton which it says when she first married or Turkinton/Turkington. On some sites it says Turkington. I think it was her brother who died in 1824? aged about 20 and he lived at the same address as her and her husband and he was a Tailor so was her husband. Also Patrick Turkington died 1844 aged 85 and i think it's her father. Mary could not write. If they had found it and it was a completely different maiden name i'd know it's not mine. May have just had Ingram on but they never came up with any.
Thanks again
LIn

lin wrote:On some sites it says Turkington.

Are you quoting somebody's interpretation of the writing or have you seen it for yourself and where?

Burial records here:-

http://www.liverpool-genealogy.org.uk/p ... =2&t=14048


Blue

Hi Lin,
You may already have this...
1841: HO107 Piece 561 Book 26 Folio 34 Page 6
Address: Workhouse And Fever Hospital, Liverpool
Patrick Turkington - Inmate 72 - 1769 - bn IRELAND

His estimated YoB on the census is at variance with the age/YoB at burial.

Thanks Dickiesam Mary A found that one for me. I was searching using his date of birth and getting no where till Mary A found it. On her marriage certificate in 1822 it states Torpenten but i have searched for this name with no luck at all. I have no concrete proof either way for Torpenten or Turkington. I do think because she could not write Torpenten could be a mistake. I am just trying to prove what her name is. I think there are a few coincidences if her name is not Turkington. The younger Patrick lived in Litherland Alley when he died and was a Tailor the same as her husband and the older Patrick Turkington was godfather to one of her children from the first marriage. I have searched the name Turkington for months and they are the only 2 Patricks i can find. I think they were from Ireland and that is why i can't find Mary's birth or Patricks. On Family Search the name is listed as Torkinton at the marriage in 1822. On the actual certificate it does say Torpenton. I think this was what made me go off on a tangent. Family Search or Ancestry not sure which now but i did print them all off had all the baptisms from first marriage and they were baptised at 2 days old at least 3 died. They listed Litherland Alley as address and Henry was a Tailor so i know it is them. Not sure if that is were i saw the maiden name as Turkington. I will have to dig out all the information and see. All Roman Catholics again the 2 Patricks catholics. For quite an unusual name in Liverpool i am getting no where.
Thanks again
Lin