Liverpool & South West Lancashire FHS - Forum

As it's Halloween here's a scary Jones enquiry. John Jones, occupation Blockmaker, married Sarah Brooking at St Peter's CE Liverpool in 1857. John's father was recorded as John Jones, Cartowner.





I've never been able to find John Jones Blockmaker with his parents on the census records or a convincing enough baptism record. Can anyone find anything? Anyone want to give it a try? Married census records as follows:-


1861

38 Hampden Street Toxteth
RG09 Piece: 2698 Folio: 37 Page: 12

John Jones, H, M, M, 25, 1836, Blockmaker, Liverpool
Sarah Jones, W, M, F, 23, 1838, Wife, Toxteth Park
John Jones Junr, S, U, M, 2, 1859, at home, Toxteth Park


1871

66 Star Street Toxteth
RG10 Piece: 3797 Folio: 135 Page: 44

John Jones, H, M, M, 34, 1837, Block & Sparmaker, Liverpool Lancashire
Sarah Jones, W, M, F, 33, 1838, Wife, Liverpool Lancashire
John Jones, S, U, M, 11, 1860, Scholar, Liverpool Lancashire
George Jones, S, U, M, 9, Scholar, Liverpool Lancashire
Sarah Jones, D, U, F, 6, Scholar, Liverpool Lancashire
James Jones, S, U, M, 3 mths, Scholar, Liverpool Lancashire


Thanks,

Blue

It's difficult isn't it, trying to exclude some of them from the censuses, it could even be that the father was originally a porter and became more affluent to acquire a cart.

I'm wondering if an alternative line of investigation might help? There are some - but I don't know how many - apprentice indentures, and also Freemen's Registers at the Record Office, whoever taught young John his trade may have left some sort of paper trail.

Concerning the Toxteth Burial,

is this John Jones, 1891,

Upper Mann St,
John Jones, 54, Blockmaker.
Sarah, wife, 53
Catherine, Daughter, 14

RG12 P2930 F68 P13

Something I've done when faced with a similar problem is look through the Liverpool marriage records on Anc. In this case, a search with Jones as the surname and John Jones as the father. Might turn up some of his siblings?

If the 1891 census is correct,??
A number of Robert's are lodging with the Jones family,

A baptism which may be of interest,

John Jones, bn, 5 Nov, 1834, Father John Jones, Seaman, Mother, Ann Roberts, Edmund St.

http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/2972/ ... turnRecord

The 1891 Census entry is on the previous page to where my ancestor Sarah Reeves formerly Jones was living (Upper Mann Street) so could be right. The Catherine Jones on that census record was baptised at Holy Trinity Toxteth on 9 Aug 1874, address looks like 1 Carey Street, occupation Block & Spar Maker. This is the marriage record of John Jones' Blockmaker's daughter Sarah my ancestor:-






Blue

The 1891 Census Jones family is definitely right. That Catherine Jones appears to have married a Brown in Rochdale. I know this side of the family has links with Rochdale my great aunt went to work there and lived there for many years. I didn't know of any earlier links myself but it turns out the great aunt went to Rochdale because of links with this Brown family. A widowed Sarah Jones is with the Brown family in 1901 and 1911 and appears to have died in Rochdale in 1917. John Jones Blockmaker's death/burial age may have been a few years out so that probably made me ignore this burial entry at Toxteth Cemetery that must be him:-

JONES John 50 years Block & Spar Maker Workhouse Toxteth Park 31 January 1893 3646 72749 C 8 124 352 CEM 9/1/15


Blue

The main stumbling block here has been trying to find a John Jones father of John Jones who was a cartowner as per John Jones' son's marriage record of 1857 (marriage to Sarah Brooking). I found a family on the 1851 Census where the father John Jones is a sailmaker (not a cartowner but a similar occupation to the son) and he has a son John Jones born c1833 who is an apprentice. The address is a court in Albert Street (later renamed Darnley Street) Toxteth not far from the Brooking family who were in Marr Street in 1851. It's intriguing but not conclusive I can't find these parents in 1841 or after 1851:-

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QKVX-4MNP


Blue

There is a John Jones 18 in the 1851 census living at Holden St the son of a widow Elizabeth Jones a washerwoman. He is apprentice to a ship's carpenter. Of course his father is dead which doesn't tally with his M/C 6 years later but not all deceased were recorded as such.

REF Piece 2192 Folio 512 Page 18

Alex

Thanks Alex another record for my possibles file.


Blue