Liverpool & South West Lancashire FHS - Forum

Hi all.

I've been trying to track down a family by the name of Morris on the 1881 census but have had no luck. Just wondering if any of you eagle-eyed sleuths can see something I'm not.

Members of the family are:
John Morris - Head - born 1848 in Chester - bricklayer
Jane - wife born in Liverpool 1846
Sarah Ellen - daughter - born in Liverpool 1871
John - son - born in Liverpool 1876
Martha - daughter - born in Liverpool 1880 when the family was living at Back Salisbury Street, Everton.

I have traced the family on all the other censuses and looked at parish records for related births, marriages and deaths - they seem to have lived most of the time in the Everton area. Another son, William, was born in 1882 and died 20 months later when the family was living in Islington Gardens.

Anything you can find out would be appreciated. I'm particularly interested to know if Martha is living with her parents and if there are any other children I have not been able to name.

Many thanks.
Glen

A couple of questions - do you have the family in the 1891 census and give the details please, are both parents still living?

Does the birth certificate give a number Back Salisbury Street where Martha was born?

Hi Mary.

Yes - I have the family on the 1891 census.
They were living 1 Court 15 House Islington.
Family members on this census are: John - head (he died in 1894); Jane - wife (she subsequently remarries and dies in 1925); John - 15 year old son who was a bricklayer's pprentice; Peter - 2 year old son; Sarah - married daughter (down as 'Laura'); Robert Levens - Sarah's husband and a carter.

It is a cousin who has given me details of Martha's birth but I have William's birth certificate for February 1882 when the family was at 57 Back Salisbury Street. William died in 1884, by which time the family was at 12 Islington Gardens.

Thanks for your interest.
Glen

Gwebb1 wrote: 1882 when the family was at 57 Back Salisbury Street.

Just wanted to check the address, which was an uninhabited dwelling in 1881, which is strange if they were in the same street/address at both Martha's birth in 1880 and William's in 1882. I think they may have been missed .....

Am I missing something? have you given Jane's maiden name ? I am assuming it's Clarke and her father was William, a porter. Address at marriage given as Turner Street, anybody any idea where that was please? John was living at Holly Street which seems to be off St Anne's Street. If I'm right, and I admit I'm only going by John's occupation, then they married in 1866 which would be a long time before having children if Sarah Ellen was the first child, however, no baptisms appear to be online, I think it would be a good idea to browse some Parish Registers at the Record Office.

The children appear to have been baptised at St Peter C of E Liverpool
Martha born 3 Aug 1880 christened 6 September 1880 address just Everton father John a bricklayer

Sarah Ellen born 25 Aug 1871 christened 1 Oct 1871 address Blandford Street

John born 31 Oct 1876 christened 13 Nov 1876 Langsdale Street

William born 11 Feb 1883 christened 19 February 183 address Everton

All found on Ancestry with images.

There's also a peter born 24 Jan 1889 christened 20 Feb 1889 Islington Gardens

On all above John is a bricklayer

Yes - you are both looking at the right family.

John Morris married Jane Clarke in October 1866. As you have seen, the marriage certificate gives John's address as Holly Street. According to the census, number 20 appears to have been a lodging house, inhabited mainly by unmarried men and I wondered if John was lodging there at the time of his marriage as he was born in Chester and the rest of his family seem to have stayed there.
I have no idea were where Turner Street is - the Clarks were living in Silver Street at the time of the 1861 census.

The 1911 census suggests that John and Jane had 13 children, of whom only 4 were living in 1911. They were Sarah Ellen, John, Martha and Peter, as mentioned by you, Education Officer. William died in 1884. I am assuming that 8 children were either still-born or died very shortly after birth so that the parents did not register them and that this explain the gap between John and Jane's marriage and first child and the quite lengthy gaps between the births of the children I do know about.

Glen

They should still have been registered if they were born alive, although may not have been christened. To actually verify this would be difficult by birth certificates, too many Morrises

Hi Glen,
It was not until 1928 that parents were allowed the option of registering a stillbirth. Prior to that stillbirths were not registered.

Mary: The Morris family were living at 18 Back Salisbury Street when Martha was born in August 1880 - don't know whether you have the chance to see who is at that address on the 1881 census. I'm not sure how to look-up just addresses on Ancestry but I think I've recently seen something on the Forum about it so I need to follow this up.

Dickiesam: Martha went on to marry William Henry Kelly in 1898 but family folklore says she left him when he was fighting in WW1 and went to Belfast with a William Sloan and subsequently had a daughter by him - Hazel Sloan. I think I've found her birth in 1921 but I'm not sure how to access/order Irish certificates - can you give me some advice, please?

Indeed, Martha's other children subsequently seem to have moved from Liverpool to Ireland and again I am at a loss what records I could use to find out more about them so any advice would be appreciated. Seems Martha lived in Dunvegan Street, Belfast, at some point but I'm not sure when - possibly in the 1930s.

Thanks again for all your help, everyone.

Glen

Re:

Dickiesam: Martha went on to marry William Henry Kelly in 1898 but family folklore says she left him when he was fighting in WW1 and went to Belfast with a William Sloan and subsequently had a daughter by him - Hazel Sloan. I think I've found her birth in 1921 but I'm not sure how to access/order Irish certificates - can you give me some advice, please?

If the GRO event in Ireland was after the September qtr of 1864 but before 1922 you can apply to either the GRO in Northern Ireland http://www.nidirect.gov.uk/index/inform ... -start.htm or the GRO in the Republic of Ireland http://www.welfare.ie/en/Pages/General- ... ffice.aspx

When the State of Éire was established in 1922 the civil registration service was restructured to provide separate and independent registration systems for each of the two new states of Ireland. The establishment of the office of the Registrar General, Belfast provided separate administration for Northern Ireland under the newly created post of Registrar General for Northern Ireland.

You can buy a photocopy of a BMD cert from the GRO in the Republic of Ireland for 4 Euro [abt £3.25] and have it emailed to you. On the Northern Ireland site you must buy credits to access results.

https://www.familysearch.org/ is a good place to search for BMDs in the Republic.

Thanks, Dickiesam.
I'll follow these things up - not really followed-up much in Ireland before as my family have tended to have links with Scotland and Wales and I have not had much success with the couple I have had connected with Ireland. I'll probably look at those again too in light of your comments.


G.