Liverpool & South West Lancashire FHS - Forum

Hi all
Some help please to identify any possible children of William FLETCHER. William married a girl called Jean TURPIE in Dysart Fife Scotland in 1790. They latter left to move to Liverpool.
When in Liverpool Jean became known as Jane, maybe a Scottish accent thing.
William became keeper of a local bridewell, I've no idea which one. William died in 1823 and Jane passed away 16th July 1841. Death cert states Died Lunts Court, Edmund Street, widow of William FLETCHER, bridewell keeper,
informant was Elizabeth BUCKLEY of Lunts Court.
All this information may be completely useless in the search for any offspring, just putting down all that I know. I am pretty sure that they had a son called Jacob, who is my great, great Grandfather. Jacob must have had siblings, after all William and Jane were married for a long time. Not a lot to go on but I live in hope.
Thanks. Gareth.

Just one other thing, and I hope this doesn't muddy the waters. I have an old note that Jacob could have been named James !!! They married September 1823 at St Peter, Church St, Liverpool.
Just a thought, wasn't Jacobus Latin for James?
Gareth.

Jacobus could be written for "James" on a RC baptism or marriage.

I will remove a number of irrelevant posts to clarify the original post.

Baptism at St Nicholas, Liverpool 21 June 1807 born 14 June
Ann dau of William Fletcher of Pemberton Alley, Weaver, and Jane Turpie his Wife.

Checked out Scotland's People for Jean's YoB to assist in a census search and got two hits..
Baptisms:
1) 11/10/1767 - TURPIE, JEAN - Parents: JAMES TURPIE/ANN WEBSTER - Parish: KINGSBARNS/FIFE - SGRO Ref: 441/00 0020 0078
2) 21/04/1771 - TURPIE, JEAN - Father: ANDREW TURPIE - Parish: DUNBOG/FIFE - SGRO Ref: 423/00 0010 0073

Then found Jane Fletcher in the 1841. Odd thing though, the page is telling me I have visited this one before! But can't recall when and why. 'Tis a puzzlement!

1841: HO107 - Piece 556 - Book 17 - Folio 4 - Page 1
Address: 2 Lunts Court, Edmund Street, Liverpool
Margaret Chamberlin 60 1781 Lancashire
Jane McConnell 20 1821 Lancashire
Ann McConnell 5 1836 Lancashire
Jane Fletcher 70 1771 Scotland
Elizabeth Buckley 40 1801 Scotland
Mary Buckley 15 1826 Lancashire
William Buckley 8 1833 Lancashire
Ann Pritchard 30 1811 Lancashire
Willm Pritchard 6 1835 Lancashire

Jane's age at death indicates her children would probably have been born between 1790 when she married William and 1821 when she would have been 50. So children could have been born in Scotland as well as England.

I didn't find any baptisms in Scotland parishes from 1790 to 1821 for a Fletcher child with father William and mother Jean with a maiden name of Turpie.

If you have the 'full' marriage details for them, what was Williams occupation then [if shown]? And names of parents might help ID any children born. Marriage: 30/10/1790 - TURPIE, JEAN married WILLIAM FLETCHER - Parish: DYSART/FIFE - SGRO Ref: 426/00 0050 0119

MaryA wrote:Baptism at St Nicholas, Liverpool 21 June 1807 born 14 June
Ann dau of William Fletcher of Pemberton Alley, Weaver, and Jane Turpie his Wife.

Following MaryA's find above, it is worth bearing in mind that with William's occupation shown as a weaver he may have worked in other 'northern' towns/counties in England where children might have been born before 1807.

gf27 wrote:Just one other thing, and I hope this doesn't muddy the waters. I have an old note that Jacob could have been named James !!! Stupid mistake Mary was Jacobs wife. They married September 1823 at St Peter, Church St, Liverpool.
Just a thought, wasn't Jacobus Latin for James?
Gareth.

To clear the waters....
Marriage: 30 Sep 1823 - St Peter, Liverpool
Jacob Fletcher - Mariner, the Parish of Liverpool
Mary Walmesly - (X), Spinster, same Parish
Witness: Macpeson [sic] Fletcher; John Maybrick
Married by Banns by: T. Kidd, Curate
Register: Marriages 1821 - 1823, Page 255, Entry 297

Curiosity... the bane of my life...
Re:

William became keeper of a local bridewell

What other evidence do you have for this information? Is it only from Jane's death certificate? And what is the evidence for his death in 1823?

He is also recorded as Jacob when he met his death when working on the Floating bath, Newspaper article, 1834.
It's also worth keeping in mind, William Fletcher, though recorded as a weaver at his daughters baptism, may well have became a Police Constable later on. (Bridewell Keeper)

dickiesam wrote:Curiosity... the bane of my life...
Re:

William became keeper of a local bridewell

What other evidence do you have for this information? Is it only from Jane's death certificate? And what is the evidence for his death in 1823?

Mention here, DS.

http://www.forum.liverpool-genealogy.or ... 22&t=14182

There doesn't appear to be any mention of William in the directories between 1766 and 1827, nor can I find mention of him in the newspapers.

Baines 1825 Directory lists Jacob Fletchers at
2 SWIFT COURT, 6, Castle street.
67 RICHMOND ROW, 19, Scotland place.

Wow.
What a lot detective work. I need time to absorb this information before I get back to you all. Just one thing I feel confident that Jacob was Jacob not James.
Records confuse sometimes. His son Thomas was also a mariner had a JF tattoo on his arm but had referred to his Dad as Jak. Jacobs wife Mary died in the workhouse in 1873 referred to Jacob as John a mariner on her death cert Well done everybody. I now need to do a bit of work but I will return.
Thanks. Gareth.

MaryA thank you for tidying up my mess, it won't happen again - well not this month! And well done for finding Ann. Wasn't it fortunate that Turpie was listed on the record, found that entry myself, it's always easy when pointed in the right direction.

DS the records of the two Turpie's you found. The 1771 Dunbog one fits in with your census find but on Jane's (Jean's) death cert July 1841 it states died aged 76 which puts her nearer the Kingsbarn's Turpie. A question, why would she have wed William in Dysart? DS "tis a puzzlement" I think you may have come across this address when you were trying to help me find the Fletcher who was keeper of the Bridewell, we did not have a Christian name at that time - must have been five years ago (good memory, you!). I don't have the full marriage details for William and Jean. How would I get that?

Yes it makes sense that William worked in other northern areas, something may turn up. Anyway Jacob had a sister called Ann, that's 100% more than before.

Thanks for all your efforts, Gareth

This would be one previous post on your behalf, apparently there was also an earlier one where you had help too.
http://forum.liverpool-genealogy.org.uk ... +bridewell

gf27 wrote:DS the records of the two Turpie's you found. The 1771 Dunbog one fits in with your census find but on Jane's (Jean's) death cert July 1841 it states died aged 76 which puts her nearer the Kingsbarn's Turpie. A question, why would she have wed William in Dysart? DS "tis a puzzlement" I think you may have come across this address when you were trying to help me find the Fletcher who was keeper of the Bridewell, we did not have a Christian name at that time - must have been five years ago (good memory, you!). I don't have the full marriage details for William and Jean. How would I get that?
Thanks for all your efforts, Gareth

Gareth,
Ages given at death on certs before abt 1965 should be treated with caution, particularly at the period we are at, the 19th century, when there was a high degree of illiteracy and when people didn't really have a need to know precisely when they were born. Whoever registered the death would in all probability have made a 'best guess' at the age of the deceased. There was no requirement to provide proof as there is now.

gf27 wrote:A question, why would she have wed William in Dysart? DS "tis a puzzlement". I don't have the full marriage details for William and Jean. How would I get that?

To get a copy of the Parish Register for this marriage...
30/10/1790 - TURPIE, JEAN and WILLIAM FLETCHER @ DYSART/FIFE - SGRO Ref: 426/00 0050 0119
Go to http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/Search and sign in. Then look in the 'Old Parish Registers' database. You will have to buy credits [£7.00 for 30]. The initial search result will cost you 1 credit and the actual register copy will cost 5 credits. You can download the copy immediately.

If her father is stated on the marriage register [it is probable that her mother will be named also], then search the Old Parish Births and Baptisms for her using parents' names. With luck you will have one of the two I found and it will cost 6 credits in total to access and download.

Thanks DS.
Will give it a try and let you know how I get on.
Gareth.

Hi DS.
have located the record and have the printout. The record has no mention of any parents from either side, nor have any of the other marriages shown on the page. Maybe I am doing something wrong.
The record says "After proclamation married 30th, were both here contracted, Fletcher & Turpie" Then in the margin it repeats William Fletcher & Jean Turpie.
Perhaps the parents are not shown for any weddings on this type of record.
Interestingly there is a John Turpie mentioned on the same page for November.
Any thought DS, I still have some credits left. I do realise, as the rolling stones once said "You cant always get what you want to"
Take care. Gareth.