Wilson Family

[mr a morris]

This is my first time on the forum,
Iwould be gratefull for any help researching my Grandfather Gilbert Wilson, I have his death certificate, died 1928 Liverpool, i also have his marriage certificate, 1907 to Annie Rigby, I am unable to locate a birth certificate, i have tried numerous options and would be glad of any help , on the 1881 census he was 4 years old living in toxteth park Liverpool

[daggers]

Welcome to the forum. You should get lots of help here.
Does the 1881 census, or any later census, show Gilbert's place of birth?
Daggers

[Pegasus]

I had a look though FreeBDM, the only 'Gilbert WILSON' birth I could find (between 1876-1878) was:

Gilbert Sutcliffe WILSON, Born June Qtr 1876 in Halifax (ref: 9a 541).

The district Halifax spans the boundaries of the counties of West Riding of Yorkshire and West Yorkshire.

[Bertieone]

Liverpool, England, Marriages and Banns, 1813-1921
about Gilbert Wilson
Name:
Gilbert Wilson, Marine Fireman
Birth Year:
abt 1881
Age:
26
Marriage Date:
13 Jan 1907
Parish:
Toxteth, St Matthew
Spouse's Name:
Annie Rigby
Father's Name:
Gilbert Wilson, Deceased, Gas Fitter
Spouse Father's Name:
James Rigby Labourer

Perhaps a search of his Merchant Navy records would help. It appears he wasn't truthful with his age at the marriage.

[Bertieone]

?

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/KCW3-7TC

[dickiesam]

Gilbert in 1881.. Appears to have been definitely born Liverpool. Perhaps not registered? Was he baptised?

RG11 Piece: 3644 Folio: 23 Page: 39
Address: 4 Court 1 House, Southwell, Toxteth Park, Lancashire
WILSON, Gilbert Head Married 41 Gas Fitter & Brass Finisher Scotland
WILSON, Mary Wife 40 Liverpool
WILSON, William Son 13 Shop Boy (Messenger) Liverpool
WILSON, Margaret Dtr 11 Scholar Liverpool
WILSON, John Son 8 Scholar Liverpool
WILSON, Gilbert Son 4 Liverpool
JONES, Mary Mother In Law Widow 63 Not Known, Wales

[dickiesam]

Whoever registered Gilbert's death also believed his declared YoB at his marriage....

Death: WILSON, Gilbert
Registration district: Liverpool
Year of registration: 1928: Sep qtr
Age at death: 48
Volume no: 8B; Page no: 177

According to the cert how old was Annie Rigby when she married Gilbert?

[Bertieone]

Hi DS,

Annie was 21 years old,

Witnesses
John Robert Wilson
Mary Ellen Nugent

[dickiesam]

Hi DS,

Annie was 21 years old,

Witnesses
John Robert Wilson
Mary Ellen Nugent

Thanks for that info Bert. I was interested because it might explain why Gilbert was misleading about his age. He didn't want anyone to know he was nearly 10 years older than Annie? Not casting aspersions.... but a shotgun marriage maybe? Annie Wilson and her family in 1910+1...

181 Upper Mann Street, Liverpool.
WILSON, Ann Head [Md 4 yrs] 26 Sack Maker Liverpool
WILSON, Edith Rigby Dtr 4 Liverpool
WILSON, Gilbert Son 3 Liverpool
WILSON, Elizabeth Jane Dtr (8 MONTHS) Liverpool
RIGBY, Elizabeth Mother Widow 56 Liverpool

[Hilary]

There are 3 entries for Gilbert on the seamen records on FMP all with the same number but 2 different years of birth. I suggest you get yourself some credits and have a look. If you are lucky you may get a photo as well.

[MaryA]

I think perhaps you need to check for a baptism in a church in the Toxteth area, but one that isn't on ancestry as there are baptisms online for both Mary Jane and William James on 11 November, 1869 at Christ Church, when they were living in 49 Gerard Street. Perhaps the first Mary Jane died as there is another for Mary Jane on 19 December 1875 at St James, Toxteth when they were living in 1 Richard's Place, Cater? Street.

[dickiesam]

There are 3 entries for Gilbert on the seamen records on FMP all with the same number but 2 different years of birth. I suggest you get yourself some credits and have a look. If you are lucky you may get a photo as well.

Hilary is spot on! There is a photo and he is sporting a very fine moustache! A real soup-strainer!
Interesting that on one of the cards he gives a DoB of 11th Jan 1878!

[mr a morris]

Thanks to all for such a quick responce to my query regarding Gilbert Wilson, 1881 census born Liverpool, 1891 census living with brother John Robert born Liverpool, 1901 wife Annie living with Brother in law John Robert and is down as single, but Gilbert not on census in 1901 or 1911, I have been looking for his baptism, but so far have drawn a blank with Gilbert, his brother John Robert, and sister Margaret. Regards 8495

[dickiesam]

Thanks to all for such a quick responce to my query regarding Gilbert Wilson, 1881 census born Liverpool, 1891 census living with brother John Robert born Liverpool, 1901 wife Annie living with Brother in law John Robert and is down as single, but Gilbert not on census in 1901 or 1911, I have been looking for his baptism, but so far have drawn a blank with Gilbert, his brother John Robert, and sister Margaret. Regards 8495

With Gilbert being a seagoing fireman [and trimmer from his record cards] he was probably away at sea for the census in 1901 and 1911.

Re 'Trimmer'.... it was one of the dirtiest jobs on a coal-powered steam ship. Trimmers had to continuously shift the coal in the bunkers to balance the ship on an even keel as coal was used for the furnaces by the firemen [aka stokers].

[mr a morris]

Thanks For That DS.I Did Not Know What A Trimmer Was.Is It Possible That The Two Gilberts 1878/1881 Who Had The Same Discharge Number Be The Same Person.I Found Gilbert On The Almanzora As A Distressed Seaman Docked Southampton 5 June 1928.A-M 8495

[dickiesam]

Thanks For That DS.I Did Not Know What A Trimmer Was.Is It Possible That The Two Gilberts 1878/1881 Who Had The Same Discharge Number Be The Same Person.I Found Gilbert On The Almanzora As A Distressed Seaman Docked Southampton 5 June 1928.A-M 8495

Those three cards relate to the same seaman. A Distressed Seaman is someone who has been given a passage home from some port on the globe where he lost his job and wanted to get back to the UK. He may have just missed his ship for several reasons... sickness, jumped ship, got drunk and ended up in jail. They get shipped back with the term DBS (Distressed British Seaman). Passage home as DBS was usually organised by the British Consul or Embassy.
See: http://www.shipsnostalgia.com/showthread.php?t=45356

On the reverse of some of the cards you will see numbers and a date. The numbers are the individual ID numbers of the vessels he joined as crew and the date he signed on. You can identify most vessels from that number here: http://www.crewlist.org.uk/data/vesselsnum.php

[mr a morris]

Still cannot get past the brick wall, I have searched as many parish records as I could find in the Toxteth area regarding the births of John Robert Wilson and my grandfather Gilbert Wilson, I sent away to The Health and Social Care Information Centre regarding the 1939 National Registration, their results show John Robert Wilson, my great uncle was born 12th May 1872 and living in 1939 at 56c Northumberland Street Toxteth Liverpool. Any information on where to go next would be greatly appreciated. Regards AM 8495

[MaryA]

Merged for continuity

[simone]

Have you tried these at all?

Male Wilson
1870
Dec q
Liverpool 8b 135

Male Wilson
Mar q 1874
Liverpool 8b 107

sorry forget those as there seem to be corresponding deaths age 0 in same quarter

[MaryA]

I'm wondering if anybody has come across the marriage of father Gilbert Wilson and wife Mary - possibly Jones?

If they weren't married could Gilbert have been registered in his mother's name?

Births Mar 1877
JONES Gilbert Liverpool 8b 195

I'm also wondering about father Gilbert's birthplace - in 1881 he gives Scotland and in 1871 he gives Bedlington which appears to be in Northumberland.