Are the graves of suicide victims recorded and Joan's story.

[marie131963]

Hello

Today is the 51st anniversary of Joan D Perry nee Gibson suicide. She was my aunt. I grew up hearing her terrible tale and how much she was loved. She had long beautiful auban hair.

I remember her for my family and pray for her and her daughters

My dad never got over her loss. She was special to him not just as his older sister but also she had saved his life when he fell through the ice in sefton park years earlier.

She had two beautiful children the youngest was about one so she may have had post natal depression. Her daughter will be 52 now and her sister a couple of years older.

She had been a bit upset a few days before when she had a disagreement with her husband, but she appeared to have got over that and was asking my mum and dad what gift they would like for their wedding that was 4 weeks later.
It went ahead I was on the way so it could not be stopped. Not the done thing in them days.

The next day they found out she had put the two daughters in a room with the windows open, sealed their room and then went into the kitchen and sealed herself in with some sort of tape she then put the oven on and gassed herself by putting her head in the oven.
She was only 27 years old and the whole family where devastated.

Then they asked for the church to do the funeral and the church where horrible they said she had commited a mortal sin and could not be buried in concegrated ground. This hurt the family even more than was necessary.

The daughters and her husband went to live with his mother and my nan and our side of the family where told no access, my nan used to see the girls at the school gates but when their gran found out she moved them to another school.

The families did not get on well before the death so imagine what it was like after. Then thier father died within about 5 years of Joan dying of cancer leaving those beautiful girls without either parent.

We grew up knowing about our cousins but never meeting them sadly.

We think Joan D Perry nee Gibson was buried at Anfield cemetery, would they have a record of exactly where in 1963 ? all we know is it was not consecrated ground. She died 20th May 1963

We don't know what the D is for in her name we suspect it is Darling as her grandfathers family passed the name Darling down the family each generation.

Thanks

Marie

[dickiesam]

Hi Marie,
Such a sad story.
Can't help with the burial but have info on the daughters. As this is about living people I have sent a PM.

[MaryA]

Thanks DS.

Marie thank you for telling this story, it's a sad thing that many families must have felt like that, they put blame where they may not have known what the cause for it was, often unfairly.

The burial registers are held at the Record Office, send them an email to check whether the Unconsecrated Graves have a separate register and what dates have been deposited with them. As it is a recent date it may be in document form and if so you will need to book a space in the Archives, giving 24 hours notice.
http://liverpool.gov.uk/libraries/archi ... y-history/

[Tina]

Thanks Marie for sharing about Joan, poor love, she must have been in so much mental pain. Good to see changes in attitudes thanks to hard work by many people.
All the best with your search.
Warmies

[marie131963]

Hello

Thank you to Dickiesam, Tina and MaryA, At least she was never forgotten.

Thanks Mary I will try and get to the library next week while kids are off, If I can get there might see you there on Tuesday.

Thank you to everyone I do appreciate your help.
Have a lovely day everyone.

Kind regards


Marie Rowan

[MaryA]

I will try and get to the library next week while kids are off

Do email first to make sure they have what you want.

[Tina]

Marie, lovely photos of a beautiful woman in Anc..

[Katie]

The Registers are on Microfilm at Liverpool Archives

352 Cem 6/2 for Unconsecrated Ground.

[marie131963]

Hello Everyone.

Thanks Katie, Tina and MaryA, Dickiesam and thank you to everyone who answered.

The photo's are mine they are the only ones my family have, I would have put them on that bucket thing but not worked out how to just do those photo's without all the rest.

The kids are off school on holiday next week so I am hoping to get to the library then and have a look at the microfilm.

I will try for Tuesday and say hello to folks.

Have a good week everyone and a huge thank you

Kind regards

Marie

[dickiesam]

The photo's are mine they are the only ones my family have, I would have put them on that bucket thing but not worked out how to just do those photo's without all the rest.

To save space here PM sent re Photobucket.

[marie131963]

Hi Everyone

Hopefully I have attached the pictures of Joan and her eldest daughter with the help of Dickiesam.







Hope it worked she a beautiful girl, Her hair was auban and went right down her back.

Kind regards

Marie

[MaryA]

Thanks for the pictures Marie, it's lovely to put a face to a story.

[Tina]

Beautiful Marie, thank you.

[marie131963]

Hello Everyone

Thank you for all your help with my aunt Joan.

I managed to get her marriage and death certificate. I did not know Joan had a middle name so got curious, I wondered if it was darling as a lot of the family had the name Darling as a middle name from a previous great grandmother to Joan.
Now I see my assumption was wrong proves the need to check everything with evidence.

Then I got the marriage certificate I was then certain her middle name was Dorothy, That was a suprise my dad never mentioned her middle name and my other aunt is Dorothy. So I assume I am all sorted.

Well got the death certificate this morning guess what the name differs on this one its Doris. Threw a spanner in the works. I am thinking her name is Dorothy or she would have told the registra, so I am wondering with all the upset her name was forgotten and they used there best guess but the coroner did the reporting so not sure. What do others think?

Sadly I have not yet found her grave I have checked Anfield and it is not there.

I found out after searching for Joan my grandmother had another child called Isobel Jessie who died early in life we think about 1 year. It looks like my grandmother was pregnant when she got married so I can not be sure on the age. This child was buried in Walton somewhere.

I told my mother about this child and my mum vaguely knew. My grandmother had told my mum I was only young when I had my little girl she said the midwife asked her was she in Labour and "she replied no she thinks she is a conservative" She was only 17 years old I understand. This amused me. She did tell my mum that she lost the child but mum had forgotten with time. She had told her around the time of Joan suicide because my mum was in the family way too only age 17 years. It's her anniversary on sunday 51 years. This will be the first without my dad who died at christmas.

So the search goes on for the cemetery.

I am enclosing the certificates so you can see them.






Thank you to everyone who helped. Any comments always welcome and always grateful for help thank you. Marie

[MaryA]

Again thank you for your updates Marie, I suspect the Coroner may have been told her middle name and then after doing his work forgot and put what he thought he remembered, sad that something like this could happen, but it would seem that you have no doubts the entries are the correct ones.

When you say "Walton" I'm suspecting it may have been Walton Parochial Cemetery off Rice Lane, sadly the entries for that date, if there are any and I think burials were still taking place then, are not online, it would mean another look up at the Record Office, also possibly try West Derby Cemetery which is on the East Lancs Road.

[marie131963]

Hi Mary

Thanks for helping me understand how the name might have changed. That would make sense.

Also thanks for the information on how to search for the Walton grave, plus the West Derby Cemetary. I have been to a few funerals about 15 years ago there so know which one you mean. I will have a look in the records office first chance I get which will be during the school holidays.

Thank you for all the work you do I appreciate it.

Kind regards

Marie

[Blue70]

What was the religion? RC or CE? Aren't the General or Non-Conformist sections of council cemeteries called unconsecrated ground because they are not CE?


Blue

[marie131963]

Hi Blue

Thank you for your help

I think it was church of england but cannot be certain of her husbands faith.

From what I can gather her mother my nan had been a catholic but gave up to marry my granddad and they had a Church of England wedding. The Gibson's all appear to be Church of Scotland in Glasgow before they moved here in 1918.

I have no idea what the general grave was but that could make sense.

Thanks again Blue I really appreciated your help.

Kind regards

Marie

[Blue70]

The story about the un-consecrated ground made me wonder whether there was an intention for the burial to be at an RC cemetery. Going by the area where Joan lived Everton Cemetery may be a possibility.


Blue

[marie131963]

Hi Blue

I never considered that but it is worth a look when I get to the records office in the school holidays. As you say Everton Cemetery was near their house.

I suspect her husband was catholic the families did not get on and maybe it was down to religion. It was a hot potatoe in those days. Churches did not work together as they do now.

Anyway a huge thank you Blue. I will keep the forum updated as and when I have news.

Marie