Morris/Tilson family

[belfaststephen]

Hi, I am researching the family line of Thomas Joseph Morris and Julia Anna Tilson, who were married at St. Cyprian, Edge Hill on 8th May 1910. I found them on the 1911 census, living on School Lane in New Ferry, and I know they had several children (Gladys b. 1910, Thomas b. 1914, Edith b. 1915, and Gerard b. 1918.) All of the children were born in the West Derby, Lancashire district.

Julia came from Cavan, Ireland and she was my great-great-grandmother. After having my great-grandmother in Belfast in 1900 when she was 15/16, she moved to England a few years later, while my great-grandmother remained with Julia's sister in Belfast.

Knowing that Julia settled in Lancashire and married/had children in the area, I am wondering if there are any street directories or other sources I could use to track her and her family's whereabouts in the 1920s & beyond. I have requested a potential death certificate for Julia, so before it arrives I'd need more information to verify it is indeed her.

I have done tons of ancestry research here in Ireland, but this is the first English connection I have tried to pursue, so I'd love any guidance about where to look outside of Ancestry.co.uk.

Thanks,
Stephen.

[MaryA]

Hi and welcome to the forum. Are you able to narrow down the place to a town rather than just the County of Lancashire? ie do you know if she lived in Liverpool. If so we have a number of our members who hold copies of directories that might be able to assist you, you may need to send a pm to whoever has a copy of the one you would be interested in.
http://forum.liverpool-genealogy.org.uk ... 16&t=13794

[Blue70]

Hi Stephen

Welcome to the forum. Julia married a Welshman called Morris and Liverpool had a lot of Welsh migrants so finding the right Morris is going to be difficult. Directories usually list the head of the household who tend to be men in most cases so we need to look for Julia's husband. Going by the link to St Cyprian's church they may have later moved from Edge Hill to neighbouring Wavertree. Here are some possibles:-

1. There is a Thomas Morris, occupation bricksetter, living at 24 Hey Green Road, off Picton Road, Wavertree, Liverpool 15 on Kelly's 1938 Directory of Liverpool.

2. There is a Thomas Morris, occupation ironworker, living at 14 Roby Street, off Grosvenor Road, Wavertree, Liverpool 15 on Kelly's 1938 Directory of Liverpool.


Possible death indexes:-

Name: Julia A Morris
Birth Date: abt 1884
Date of Registration: Sep 1965
Age at Death: 81
Registration district: Liverpool North
Inferred County: Lancashire
Volume: 10d
Page: 333

Name: Thomas Joseph Morris
Birth Date: 30 Jan 1888
Date of Registration: Mar 1971
Age at Death: 83
Registration district: Liverpool
Inferred County: Lancashire
Volume: 10d
Page: 934



Blue

[belfaststephen]

Thank you both for the fast responses.

I definitely think they were based in Liverpool. Their address at time of marriage in 1910 was Holt Road, and their address when their daughter Gladys died in 1915 was Oceanic Road. Both seem to be quite close to Hey Green Road and Roby Street, so Blue70 than you for those directory listings. One of them may very well be the Thomas for whom I am looking!

Thank you also for those possible death entries. The 1965 entry is the one for which I have ordered the certificate. Hopefully Julia's address at death is in the Wavertree area.

[Tina]

Hi Stephen, welcome aboard. Frustrating for me not being able to help, Wavertree born, know all the streets mentioned but no rellies living sadly.
Good luck

Thomas 23 born North Wales was a farm labourer in 1911
Marr cert 77 Holt Rd, Thomas father was Thomas dec'd farm labr
Julia 25 father Wm dec'd police constable.
Witnesses Wm Scott and Edith Worthington

[Tina]

I think I have found the witnesses who lived close by, perhaps workmates?
1911 Edith 22 with her family single box maker, visitor Wm Scott 24 labr at the biscuit works. 12 Douro Place, between 520 and 522 Edge Lane.
I reckon they married each other in All Saints Stoneycroft 1914.
(little Gladys Muriel is buried at Yew Tree)

[MaryA]

Nice bit of background our Tina.

Stephen let us know who registered the death, it might help, sadly they don't appear to have left Wills.

[Tina]

Tx Mary!!

[belfaststephen]

Tina - thanks for the information on their witnesses. My Mum and I were wondering if they were related or were friends/neighbours, so I will pull up their census entries for her to have a look.

I will definitely post who registered Julia's death when I get the certificate. Should have it soon, hopefully!

I had intended to apply for access to Julia and Thomas' listing in the 1939 National Registration, as I have done for many family members here in Northern Ireland. However, it seems I would have to fill out a 3-page application form *and* pay a fee - is that correct? I was surprised to hear this, as the NI Registration is free to apply to for access at our public record office headquarters.

Thanks again for all your help, everyone. You're a great bunch! Let me know if I can ever repay the favour with some N.I. look-ups.

[Blue70]

Hi Stephen

Yes we have to pay in England & Wales to access the 1939 Register. It's quite an expensive service I've used it a couple of times myself. To get dates of birth of Isle of Man born great grandparents and to find out where my uncle was evacuated to in Wales in September 1939.

http://www.hscic.gov.uk/register-service

PS: I have a great, great grandmother Margaret Reid born around 1858-60 in Belfast to Alexander Reid and Margaret McCaughan. They were Church of Ireland. There's no baptism online but one of her brothers (Robert Reid) was baptised at St Anne's in Donegall Street in 1856. If you ever come across Margaret in your research let me know. Her father Alexander was a cooper when the family moved to Liverpool in the early 1860s.


Blue

[MaryA]

And to add to Blue's information, you also need to prove that the person you are enquiring about has already died.

[belfaststephen]

And to add to Blue's information, you also need to prove that the person you are enquiring about has already died.

Ah yes, we have that protocol for persons born less than 100 years ago. I do hope the policy is changed for you all, regarding having to pay a fee, as it is such a valuable resource. I have the staff at PRONI tortured with constant look-ups every time I find the location of an ancestor in 1939.

Blue70 - I did a quick search and got a hit for a Margaret Reid baptised in 1858 in Belfast to an Alexander and Eliza (no maiden name given.) Even though the mother's name is different, let me know if you'd still like the full record let me know and I'll PM you. Also, that's funny about Robert being baptised in St. Anne's, as I live just up the street from that church! Small world.

[MaryA]

I do hope the policy is changed for you all, regarding having to pay a fee, as it is such a valuable resource.

Give it a couple of years, the access has been given to Findmypast who will include the database in their collection once it has been transcribed.

[Blue70]

And to add to Blue's information, you also need to prove that the person you are enquiring about has already died.

Ah yes, we have that protocol for persons born less than 100 years ago. I do hope the policy is changed for you all, regarding having to pay a fee, as it is such a valuable resource. I have the staff at PRONI tortured with constant look-ups every time I find the location of an ancestor in 1939.

Blue70 - I did a quick search and got a hit for a Margaret Reid baptised in 1858 in Belfast to an Alexander and Eliza (no maiden name given.) Even though the mother's name is different, let me know if you'd still like the full record let me know and I'll PM you. Also, that's funny about Robert being baptised in St. Anne's, as I live just up the street from that church! Small world.

Hi Stephen,

I've got that baptism transcript unfortunately it's not the right one. Wrong mother's name, wrong religion.


Blue

[belfaststephen]

Too bad :/ I'll be at PRONI tomorrow, so I will check just in case they have the St. Anne records for the 1850s. Have you used the online street directories on the PRONI website? They are free to consult, cover most of the 1800s, and will help you track Alexander's movements around the city during that time.

Do any of you know if/where newspaper archives are kept for Liverpool? If the Julia Morris who died in 1965 is *my* Julia, I'd love to look for obituaries.

Thanks.

[MaryA]

The newspapers are held at the Record Office, William Brown Street library, but a search would have to be requested after you get the death certificate otherwise it would take too long to check 3 months of obituaries.

[belfaststephen]

Great, thanks.

[Blue70]

Too bad :/ I'll be at PRONI tomorrow, so I will check just in case they have the St. Anne records for the 1850s. Have you used the online street directories on the PRONI website? They are free to consult, cover most of the 1800s, and will help you track Alexander's movements around the city during that time.

Thanks.

There is a good selection of Belfast directories online but unfortunately the family don't appear on them.


Blue

[belfaststephen]

Hi folks -

Just wanted to say thanks again for the help because today I received the 1965 death certificate for Julia Morris which confirmed the names I had for her husband and son, and the address I had for her at Oceanic Road. I have already put in a request for her obituaries, so hopefully I get lucky again.

One question: the registration district was Broadgreen and her address was Oceanic Road, so does anyone know at which cemetery she is likely to have been buried? I checked the Yew Green records on Ancestry.co.uk but she doesn't seem to be there.

Thanks again.

[MaryA]

It would have only been Yew Tree Cemetery if she was RC.

Could be Allerton, could be Smithdown Road. If you get the obituary, perhaps it will give the details.