Liverpool & South West Lancashire FHS - Forum

I have received a birth certificate for my paternal grandmother, Kathleen COLERIDGE. Research prior to receipt of the certificate would suggest that Kathleen's father, Thomas COLERIDGE married Mary Gertrude PARRY

However, I've now hit a quandry as Kathleen's birth certificate gives her mother as "Mary Coleridge formerly Evans"!!

I have tried looking for Mary (with and without the Gertrude) PARRY previously marrying a man called EVANS,and vice versa (Mary EVANS previously marrying a PARRY) but with no luck.

Does anyone have any possible ideas? I don't want to order the marriage certificate of Thomas COLERIDGE and Mary Gertrude PARRY if it's potentially, the wrong one!

I think it's the correct one as the year of the marriage coincides with the births of Kathleen and her siblings, who also match the names of her siblings on her death notice in the Liverpool Echo - so I think Mary Gertrude PARRY is correct - but I would like to try and find out where EVANS has come from.

Hi,
Can you put some dates to go with those names? Birth years, year/date of marriages etc?

DS

Yes, of course, silly me!!

Kathleen was born on 14 August 1906 (but wasn't registered until October 1906) and passed away in July 1960.

Her father, Thomas Christopher (b. 1886 - d. Dec 1950), who is buried in the same grave as Kathleen married Mary Gertrude PARRY in 1903 in St. Peter's Church, Everton.

According to the 1911 Census (I don't have the reference number with me at present but they lived in 7 Lace Street), their first child (also Thomas Christopher) was born in 1903 - so the marriage seems correct.

I've got Kathleen's grave details and she is buried with her husband (my grandfather), her father Thomas Christopher and one of her sisters. The dates of burial and ages all tie in together with the 1911 Census - which is why this new name of EVANS has thrown me slightly.

Single when married,


England, Select Marriages, 1538–1973
about Mary Gertrude Parry




Name:
Mary Gertrude Parry
Gender:
Female
Marital status:
Single
Age:
20
Birth Date:
1883
Marriage Date:
13 Jul 1903
Marriage Place:
Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Father:
Edward Parry
Spouse:
Thomas Christopher Caleridge
FHL Film Number:
93942
Reference ID:
p108 no215

Not a hint towards the Evans name but according to http://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk the marriage of Thomas C Coleridge and Mary G Parry took place in 1903 at St. Peter's, Liverpool not St. Peter's, Everton - these are two different churches.

Karen

Bert

I found that record, which is why the name EVANS is mystifying.

I can only see two (possibly three) scenarios:

1. The registrar got the name wrong (but could someone really write EVANS when they meant PARRY!)
2. The marriage entry mentioned above states Mary as single when she was a widow (which appears unlikely as she is "only" 20 - but is possible)
3. She was married previously but either divorced/husband ran away/marriage wasn't consumated, etc.

Whilst number 3 is very, very unlikely I'm reminded of that Sherlock Holmes quote - "Once you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth"

The Coleridge family in 1910+1....

Address: 7a Lace St, Liverpool
COLERIDGE, Thomas Christopher Head 26 1885 Mill Hand Oil Cake Mills - Liverpool Lancs
COLERIDGE, Mary Gertrude Wife [Md 7 years] 26 1885 - Liverpool Lancs
COLERIDGE, Thomas Son 7 1904 School - Liverpool Lancs
COLERIDGE, Elizabeth Dtr 6 1905 School - Liverpool Lancs
COLERIDGE, Richard Son 1 1910 - Liverpool Lancs
DUCKERS, James Boarder 2 1909 - Walton Hospital

The actual household entry has a deletion with the Note:"In hospital".. Catherine Coleridge, aged 4.
Would this be Kathleen? And have you found her in 1910+1?

Steve

There's about 7 children born between 1911-1924 with the Coleridge/Parry combination, are these the same family?
Perhaps another birth cert is required to confirm if Evans is a mistake.

dickiesam wrote:The Coleridge family in 1910+1....

...

The actual household entry has a deletion with the Note:"In hospital".. Catherine Coleridge, aged 4.
Would this be Kathleen? And have you found her in 1910+1?

DS

Yes that is Kathleen, she was known as Catherine as well as Kate by various members of the family - 2 names which have been passed down to other female relatives.

I forgot to mention that she is also in the 1911 Census Return for Fazakerley Hospital where her age is given as 5

As you will notice, I have been quite lucky in that the family also mistakenly provided details of the child that had died, Edward, who passed away in August 1910

There is some evidence to suggest that Edward was buried in Ford Cemetery and I'm trying to confirm and, if correct, ascertain if there is a family grave. Interestingly, Kathleen and her father are buried in Anfield Cemetery when I would have thought that Ford Cemetery would have been more likely.

Bertieone wrote:Steve

There's about 7 children born between 1911-1924 with the Coleridge/Parry combination, are these the same family?
Perhaps another birth cert is required to confirm if Evans is a mistake.

Bert - I've noted them. I can only confirm one of the children is their's and, I believe, she is still alive. I'm trying to trace her down and, maybe, glean some information which might shed some light.

steveflan wrote:Bert

I found that record, which is why the name EVANS is mystifying.

I can only see two (possibly three) scenarios:

1. The registrar got the name wrong (but could someone really write EVANS when they meant PARRY!)
2. The marriage entry mentioned above states Mary as single when she was a widow (which appears unlikely as she is "only" 20 - but is possible)
3. She was married previously but either divorced/husband ran away/marriage wasn't consumated, etc.

Whilst number 3 is very, very unlikely I'm reminded of that Sherlock Holmes quote - "Once you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth"

Since Mary Coleridge's birth was registered as Parry, it would seem there is a slip between the eye and the pen when the Registrar's entry was transcribed into the GRO Index from his quarterly returns. And there are many examples of errors being created during this phase of the recording of events. Unlikely to be a misheard mistake of Evans for Parry. The original marriage record will still be held at the respective registry office.

Birth: PARRY, Mary Gertrude
Registration district: Liverpool
Year of registration: 1883; Quarter of registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
Volume no: 8B; Page no: 75

There's a marriage of an Edward Parry 25 stoker of Mela Street married Elizabeth Evans 28 of River Avon Street on 30 may 1878 at St David c of e could this be your Family and the Evans comes from Elizabeth Mary Gertrude's mother?

The Edward Coleridge buried at Ford Cemetery lived at 7 Lace Street, the same address given on the census that dickiesam posted. The grave number is given as 1611. It looks like this is a public grave, however, as several people on the same page of the register are buried in the same grave.

Karen

Re:

Since Mary Coleridge's birth was registered as Parry, it would seem there is a slip between the eye and the pen when the Registrar's entry was transcribed into the GRO Index from his quarterly returns. And there are many examples of errors being created during this phase of the recording of events. Unlikely to be a misheard mistake of Evans for Parry. The original marriage record will still be held at the respective registry office.

A phone call or email to the respective registry office with a query re the maiden name might get a helpful response?

I know for price, ease of ordering and often speed I do tend to use the GRO for most of the certificates I order, but I agree with DS that this would be an occasion to double check what the original at the local Register Office says - ask at St George's Hall.

Thanks to everyone for the very prompt replies.

DS/Mary - The birth certificate I have does appear to be a photocopy of the original entry from the GRO - however, I will get in touch with the local office at St George's just to make sure.

Education Officer wrote:There's a marriage of an Edward Parry 25 stoker of Mela Street married Elizabeth Evans 28 of River Avon Street on 30 may 1878 at St David c of e could this be your Family and the Evans comes from Elizabeth Mary Gertrude's mother?

Hilary - sorry but missed your original post.

A nice idea, however, I do know that the Coleridge's on my side were Roman Catholics so I'm not sure whether this marriage is part of my tree.

A further update. Took the advice of DS and Mary and contacted St George's Hall and they confirmed that the mother's maiden name on the birth certificate was EVANS and not PARRY - despite where the other evidence appears to point.

I think my only option now to get a definitive answer is try and contact my distant relatives on the Coleridge side and see if they can shed any light.

Thanks for all the options and advice so far - much appreciated.

steveflan wrote:A further update. Took the advice of DS and Mary and contacted St George's Hall and they confirmed that the mother's maiden name on the birth certificate was EVANS and not PARRY - despite where the other evidence appears to point.

I think my only option now to get a definitive answer is try and contact my distant relatives on the Coleridge side and see if they can shed any light.

Thanks for all the options and advice so far - much appreciated.

Hmmm! 'Tis a puzzlement! I am wondering if, when the registrar asked for the mother's maiden name when Kathleen's birth was registered, Mary misunderstood the question and gave her own mother's maiden name?

Have you found Mary Gertrude Parry in 1891? Did she have siblings? Do the names of witnesses on her marriage cert suggest siblings?

Can SKP find a baptism for Mary Gertrude, father Edward, mother....?

DS

I've drawn a blank on all of those suggestions, and even 1901 as well.

I may take the plunge and get Mary Gertrude's birth certificate to see if her mother's maiden name was EVANS.

Then again, Hilary mentioned a marriage between an Edward PARRY and Elizabeth EVANS in 1878. I originally discounted this as the COLERIDGE's are RC and Edward/Elizabeth's marriage was CofE.

I wasn't sure whether mixed religion marriages were 'tolerated' then - hence I wasn't overly confident about this marriage, but it does look a slim possibility.