Liverpool & South West Lancashire FHS - Forum

Hi Everybody

I am new to this site so sorry for any mistakes that I make.

The book says that Owney's family stayed with an uncle while in Liverpool, is there anyway to find out the name of the uncle.

Thank you

Colin Madden

Hi Colin, welcome to the forum.

I'm moving your post to the Liverpool Board as it would be better for the crew who I hope will be interested in researching this for you, are you descended from the Maddens and can you describe how and also give us more information from the part of the book that mentions the visit to Liverpool and the uncle. Especially dates and if possible better locations would be a big help in trying to answer your query.

Link to the original post
http://forum.liverpool-genealogy.org.uk ... 32&t=11888

Hi MaryA

I am not sure if I am descended from the Oweny branch of the Madden family but I think my family came from Ireland about the same time as his family. When I was younger I remember family members talking about a Madden who left Liverpool around 1900 and was a "gangster" in America who was part of our family (maybe him or maybe not).

I have just looked at the book and he did not live with his uncle. At the bottom of page 17 it says "he spent many hours watching an uncle fighting for purses in halls and boxing booths. It does not give a date but I think it might be around 1901-02 from what I have read in the book.

I hope this helps and I would be very greatful for any help anyone can give with this old family story.

Thank you

Colin

I can only think it must be around those years, from the details, if accurate of course, on wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Owney_Madden

And to confirm both Martin Madden, age 11 and Owen Madden age 10 were inmates at 36 Springfield Terrace, Leeds in 1901. RG13; Piece: 4224; Folio: 49; Page: 15

The father died in 1902 in Liverpool so I think it can only be 1901-02 but I can not be sure

Colin

I can't find any possible relations in the Liverpool area the family appear to have lived in Leeds for many years. I can't find any sign of the death of Francis Madden can anyone find it? Both parents, Francis Madden and Mary O'Neill, were Leeds born. Mary O'Neill's mother Mary Wills was from County Mayo, Ireland. She came to Leeds with her parents John and Ann Wills and older sister Bridget in the 1840s around the time of the famine.


Blue

MaryA wrote:I can only think it must be around those years, from the details, if accurate of course, on wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Owney_Madden

And to confirm both Martin Madden, age 11 and Owen Madden age 10 were inmates at 36 Springfield Terrace, Leeds in 1901. RG13; Piece: 4224; Folio: 49; Page: 15

Mary Madden, married, arrived in New York, 24 January, 1901. Residing with Mrs O'Neil. travelled alone.

Martin,11, Owen,9 and Maria, 8, departed Liverpool, 4 June, 1902 for New York.

Its possible that Francis died in Leeds between Mary leaving, January 1901 and census night 1901.

I have looked for a death record for Francis but cannot find a record anywhere between 1890 and 1910.
I have read one report from Hot Springs that Francis went to America. Maybe he went before Mary and died before she got there.
As for the uncle, The only possibility I can find is not a Madden but a Billy O'Neill who was a boxer in Liverpool around 1900.
I can only get my family back to 1864 in Liverpool with my G-Grandad John Madden, Parents John Madden and Margaret McNicholas or Nicols but cannot find a marriage for them. They are meant to be from Ireland but I cannot be sure of this without any records.
I think I need to find the marriage of John and Margaret before I can find a connection if any the other Madden's.

Thank you all again for your help.

Colin

the-5th-kings wrote:I can only get my family back to 1864 in Liverpool with my G-Grandad John Madden, Parents John Madden and Margaret McNicholas or Nicols but cannot find a marriage for them. They are meant to be from Ireland but I cannot be sure of this without any records.
I think I need to find the marriage of John and Margaret before I can find a connection if any the other Madden's.

Thank you all again for your help.

Colin

Hi Colin,
Where does the date 1864 come from? Is it a birth year for John Madden? And where is the family in 1871?

Name: Joannes Madden
Birth Date: 24 Oct 1864
Baptism Date: 30 Oct 1864
Parish: Holy Cross
Father's Name: Joannis Madden
Mother's Name: Margarita Nicklonson


Blue

1864 is the birth year of John.
I cannot find them on the census for 1871 and I think he is in the army in Portland in 1881.
The first one I am sure of is his marriage in 1889 to Annie Spellman then living in Kew Street off Scotland road in 1891.
On the 1901 census he has his brother living with him (Bernard born 1886) but I can find no birth for him
Hope this helps

Colin

Did you see my reply under the original posting? Link above.

Alex

Hi Alex
I had a look at the reply and link. The link is very interesting thank you.

I would like to thank everybody for the help they have given.

Would anybody have any advice about how to find John Madden's family before 1864 or would that be better in a new topic.

Thank you

Colin

Looking back at what Blue wrote above, it would appear that at least one side of the family may have come across from Ireland. If you want to ask our help I would suggest posting on our "Other Areas" board, some of our crew may have some suggestions to help.

An alternative suggestion is to post on the Rootschat forum where they have specific boards for different countries including one for Ireland and there may be people from Co. Mayo who have access to resources there.

For what it's worth I don't believe the story that Francis Madden died in Liverpool in 1902. As far as I can see he was in and out of prison in Leeds until he died there on the 11th of March 1932.

Wow you've picked this up after a long long time, but thank you as hopefully one day somebody will be looking for the Madden family and perhaps clarify or confirm your theory.