Liverpool & South West Lancashire FHS - Forum

Hello Members, this is my first time on here and not even sure if i have posted in correct place or even if your members offer look-ups, but either way i have a dilemma. My mother-in-law always insisted her mother(Sarah Alice Dodd) only had two sisters, (Bessie Annie Dodd, and Elsie May Dodd.) But i found a Joseph Arthur Dodd born 18 Jun 1898,died 15 Dec 1902, age 4 of Acute Diarrhoea, then on the 1911 census i found an Ernest James Dodd born 25 Jun 1907, I also found a marriage for him in 02 Jan 1926 to a Sarah Alice Barton, making him 18. They had one son George in 1939 6 Jul Warrington, Lancashire. Now here comes the dilemma. On the 1911 census it says that Betsy Nee Gibson, and Joseph Dodd had 4 children living and 2 dead, now in my calculation that is 6 children. Which means the 6th one must of been born after the 1901 census, or not at home. and then died before the 1911 census, so i have no idea if it was a boy or girl, i have ordered many certifcates for the birth of many children but alas not found the correct birth and parentage. I live in Wiltshire so not local. Is there any way i can found out this information without having to make a 4 hour journey. Any help would be gratefully received. Marny

Hi

Welcome to the forum.

Here are the possibles in the form of Death Indexes:-

Death Index Oct/Nov/Dec 1901

Dodd James Peter 0 Warrington 8c 158  


Death Index Jan/Feb/Mar 1906

DODD Peter 1 Warrington 8c 134


Death Index Apr/May/Jun 1906

Dodd Henry James 0 Warrington 8c 101  

  

Blue

Hi Marny,
The 1901 census shows a son who does not appear in the 1911...
RG13 Piece: 3615 Folio: 141 Page: 9
Address: 69 High Street, Turton, Lancashire
DODD, Joseph Head 35 1866 Labourer General - Chester, Cheshire
DODD, Betsy Wife 26 1875 - Warrington, Lancashire
DODD, Sarah Alice Dtr 5 1896 - Warrington, Lancashire
DODD, Joseph Arthur Son 2 1899 - Warrington, Lancashire

As you already found, Joseph Arthur dies in 1902..
Deaths Dec 1902: Dodd, Joseph 4 Warrington 8c 156

Between 1901 and 1911 there were only 3 child Dodd deaths registered in Warrington for children born between those years. All boys, they are the same ones Blue found....
DODD, James Peter [0] - Warrington 1901
DODD, Henry James [0] - Warrington 1906
DODD, Peter [1] - Warrington 1906

One of them is the sixth child of your Dodd family and is the second one that had died. So your mother-in-law is correct that Sarah Alice had only two sisters. If you want to confirm which child is the second death child I suggest you go for a birth cert rather than a death cert because you will be able to specify the parents. If the GRO cannot match the parents with the child you selected they will refund your fee in full. However, you can only specify parents if you enter just the year of birth. Tick the NO box where it asks if the GRO References [Volume and Page] are known. If you apply for all three only one of them will be the right one so you will end up only paying for one.

Hi and welcome to the forum.

Please do as Dickiesam says and order a birth certificate rather than death cert. Specifying the parents is the way to go as with a death it could be either one or the other who registered, or perhaps even a coroner or another member of the family, so it would be very hit and miss.

Unfortunately deaths aren't available to look up, only burials which probably wouldn't give any family details as clues, but there might possibly be an address, however if the child died in Hospital then that address might be given instead, again an accurate result could be quite uncertain.

Hi everyone, many thanks for all your input, i did reply last night took me over half hour, hadnt re-logged in so lost all my reply, hence am doing again today, How annoying is that.
I have sadly either had the birth certificates suggested or the lovely lady at Warrington has checked they have the correct parenting before posting out to me, sadly DODD, James Peter [0] - Warrington 1901
DODD, Henry James [0] - Warrington 1906
DODD, Peter [1] - Warrington 1906
all these boys do not have the parents i need. Of course another possiblity is that the said child was alive in 1901 but possibly in hospital on the census night , then sadly died before the 1911.
This still leaves me with a dilemma as i do not know if it was a boy or a girl. Will just have to save up and get my lovely hubby to come with me to Warrington.
Thanks again for help, perhaps one day i will get to the bottom of the mystery. Marny

Hi Marny,
While it is possible a child born before the 1901 was absent from home on census night, it means the death would be between 1901 and 1911.

DODD, Joseph married GIBSON, Betsy
Registration District: Warrington, Lancashire
Year of registration: 1894; Mar qtr
Volume no: 8C; Page no: 256

Since the parents married in 1894 in Warrington and all their living children were born in the Warrington district it is more than likely a child born between 1894 and March 1901 had also died withing that period. Having compared all births registered in Warrington 1893 - 1901 with deaths of children born in the same period I got this list...

Births Jun 1893: Dodd, Annie - Warrington 8c 217
Deaths Jun 1898: Dodd, Annie - 3 - Warrington 8c 124

Births Jun 1897: Dodd, Edward Colin - Warrington 8c 224
Death Sep 1897: Dodd, Edward Collin - 0 - Warrington 8c 133

Births Sep 1897: Dodd, Mary - Warrington 8c 218
Death Mar 1899: Dodd, Mary - 1 - Warrington 8c 122

Births Mar 1898: DODD, Richard - Warrington 8c 252
Death Mar 1898: Dodd, Richard - 0 - Warrington 8c 130

Births Mar 1899: Dodd, Elizabeth - Warrington 8c 227
Death Sep 1899: Dodd, Elizabeth - 0 - Warrington 8c 153

And after March 1901 there's the one you already have?
Births Dec 1901: Dodd, James Peter - Warrington 8c 242
Death Dec 1901: Dodd, James Peter - 0 - Warrington 8c 158

A birth cert search based on 1898 for a child Dodd, parents Joseph and Betsy Dodd nee Gibson would cover 4 of the births/deaths. Don't specify any Volume or page numbers. If you don't get a hit then that leaves Annie bn 1893!

James Peter Dodd is definitely not one as the baptism is on Lancs OPC at Holy Trinity Church. He was baptised on 15 Dec 1901 his parents were Alfred Dodd, Furnace Man and Selina Dodd of 32 West Street.


Blue

Thank you Blue70, Dickiesam, thank you for all your hard work, i will need to check through my list of children who i have previously checked out, then see who if any is left. thank you again.

Hi ,Just throwing in my two penneth,the Dodd and Gibson also comes up on the Cheshire BMD site also the birth of Sarah Alice 7 June 1895 appears on the Cheshire family search cannot find any more under cheshire but Elsie May 20 June 1905 appears under mother Betsie on family search england.
When did Warrington have its bondaries adjusted,thinking some records may be held at chester.
John

Warrington's boundary were transferred to Cheshire in 1974. However the reason that the births, marriages and deaths are on the Cheshire BMD for all the years before that is because when we started indexing them for inclusion it was the first BMD website i.e., the Cheshirebmd, even though the original boundaries had been in Lancashire. I say "we" because me and another colleague at Warrington Register Office were the ones sending them to the webmaster for Cheshire BMD in the early days of the indexing. The same happens with other Registration Districts which have transferred, you will find them on both areas. If the Registration District given on either Cheshire or Lancashire BMD says 'Warrington", it will still be at the Warrington Register Office, just follow the instructions which will give the correct address for your application for a certificate.

Thanks for your help on this one Glenys and well done with all those transcriptions, a job well worth a bit of applause.

Hi Marny just found your posting and here's another idea, I had a similar problem but it was finding a living child who was to young to be away from the family home on census night, I knew he was living as he was shown in later census, but when I checked both sets of grandparents out on the census that he was missing from, there he was with his paternal grandparents. I can only presume he must have had an illness that they did not want passing on to the rest of the children. Lots of luck with your searching, Cheers L.B

I don't think you should ever assume that a child was too young to be away from their parents on Census night. Several of my aunts and uncles were 'farmed out' to their aunt and uncle as they came from a large family and there was more room at the aunts and uncles. My great-aunt was born in Ashton-in-Makerfield but found on a Census as a child in North Wales again staying with relations.